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It has everything to do with social darwinism. It would be the law of the jungle with the super rich having total domination over Joe Sixpack. Everyone knows what happens when you eliminate all social safety nets funded by "attacking and stealing from people". You tell me what you would do as a blind and disabled person living on $650 a month SSI and the libertarian agenda tells millions of disabled and desperately vulnerable elderly people to go pound salt. There is NO WAY churches can replace even 5% of the support for the disabled, sick, elderly and vets currently being served by "attacks and thefts" from taxpayers. Even if you cant imagine yourself ever getting disabled or getting a child with severe disabilities, you NEED government to enforce your rights and a corruption free court system is impossible in this law of the jungle you envision. Libertarians dont even consider anti-trust legislation appropriate. Monopolies ripping you off left and right and there aint nothing you can do about it. No power for salt of the earth Americans. Total domination by private tyrannies. That is the goal of the libertarian agenda.
How can the rich "dominate" you when they can't force you to do anything or prevent you from competing? The only domination going on is when they use state force as a tool to rig the game in their favor. Monopolies are almost impossible in a free society, and guaranteed with s state - the state IS a monopoly that's allowed to FORCE you to pay and punish you if you refuse.
As for the disabled and elderly, that's why you maintain good relationships with family and friends, and that's why we have all kinds of organizations and Kickstarter sites to help people. That also creates an incentive to be a person people want to help. Little known fact: poverty was declining until the state decided to step in, and that progress stopped. That alone isn't proof that state programs increased poverty, but they surely didn't make things better.
Lastly, you put "attacking and stealing" in quotes as if that isn't what it is. If you bring violence into a peaceful situation, that's an attack. If you take what doesn't belong to you, that's stealing.
It has everything to do with social darwinism. It would be the law of the jungle with the super rich having total domination over Joe Sixpack. Everyone knows what happens when you eliminate all social safety nets funded by "attacking and stealing from people". You tell me what you would do as a blind and disabled person living on $650 a month SSI and the libertarian agenda tells millions of disabled and desperately vulnerable elderly people to go pound salt. There is NO WAY churches can replace even 5% of the support for the disabled, sick, elderly and vets currently being served by "attacks and thefts" from taxpayers. Even if you cant imagine yourself ever getting disabled or getting a child with severe disabilities, you NEED government to enforce your rights and a corruption free court system is impossible in this law of the jungle you envision. Libertarians dont even consider anti-trust legislation appropriate. Monopolies ripping you off left and right and there aint nothing you can do about it. No power for salt of the earth Americans. Total domination by private tyrannies. That is the goal of the libertarian agenda.
Any sudden elimination of welfare or social program is stupid at best. Only stupid people would even think that way. If we are truly moving to a libertarian system, the elimination needs to happen slowly, gradually and over a long time like a few decades.
It still comes down to the question "Are we each a free individual to make our own decisions?" If the answer is yes, it is up to each one of us to decide what to do if we become old, blind or disabled. Most reasonable people buy insurance to insure themselves against the unexpected and save for their retirement.
I am under no illusion that some people, no matter what we don, would refuse to own up their own responsibilities. I'd support some form of public options for them but those people should be barred from voting or reproduction.
Yes, I do agree with you that libertarianism is just another word for social darwinism, in its essence. As you point out, when people actually learn about the specifics and the real world consequences of this ideology, it has extremely low support because most human beings are not social darwnists, but social animals and believe in community and compassion. That's why the funders of this movement know they must be vague and focus on pot, gay rights and "freedom", "founding fathers" and "constitution" and other buzz words.
Anything wrong with social Darwinism? Every part of our society today is social Darwinism except for Affirmative Action. We see the best players get paid the most in every field.
Exactly: end the govt. control SO THAT people can smoke pot and marry whoever/whatever they want.
Few Libertarians are as high-minded as you.
Government plays an important role in libertarianism such as defense, internal security, and enforcing the laws. I don't think any libertarians would want to dissolve the government.
Yes, in a libertarian system, people would have the freedom to smoke pot and marry whoever they want but you forgot to mention millions of other freedoms such as freedom to own properties, freedom to keep your own income, freedom from persecution, freedom to run your own business and freedom to make your own decisions for yourself.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 09-12-2016 at 11:09 AM..
Government plays an important role in libertarianism such as defense, internal security, and enforcing the laws. I don't think any libertarians would want to dissolve the government.
Yes, in a libertarian system, people would have the freedom to smoke pot and marry whoever they want but you forgot to mention millions of other freedoms such as freedom to own properties, freedom to keep your own income and freedom to make your own decisions for yourself.
The only thing a Libertarian president can do is take marijuana off the Schedule I list.
Then it become a state issue.
Some of the other posters obviously have no idea what the Libertarian platform say. They should read it.
There is plenty of very, very vague talk when it comes to libertarianism. But what does it all translate into? What policies do libertarians actually live and die for?
Only two:
1. It MUST be "anything goes" when it comes to marriage.
2. No rules about pot.
That's it.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Are you talking about the so called "libertarians" or libertarianism?
Gary johnson is not really a libertarian, he is a non- aggressive liberal at most.
Guess who said this?
I don't like putting the burden on our businessmen to be the policemen. That means he has to be policing activity. But I have a strong position on immigration. I don't think that we should give amnesty and they become voters. But I do think we should deal with our borders. One way that I would suggest that we could do it is pay less attention to the borders between Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan and bring our troops home and deal with the border. But why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less attention to the borders here at home? We now have a mess on the borders, and it has a lot more to do with it than just immigration, because we're financing some of this militarism against the drug dealers on the borders right now to the tune of over $1 billion. And there is a mess down there, but it's much bigger than just the immigration problem.
Yeah, try find who said the above, libertarianism is NOT about government control, it is NOT about open border, it is not anarchy.
Not familiar with this particular "father of libertarianism" ( how many of them WERE there, by the way????....seems everybody claims their own "father of the movement".)
But you help make my point: scratch the surface of libertarianism and you ALWAYS find lots of.......leftism.
(As you know, your Spooner was part of the First International; you know---just like Marx! )
"Let's smoke pot freely" and " anyone can marry anyone"......those are two big GOP positions. Oops, I mean Democrat.
And it's always the same.
So the belief that the state should be abolished and that people should be free to engage in whatever form of commerce they want makes one a Marxist.
Anything wrong with social Darwinism? Every part of our society today is social Darwinism except for Affirmative Action. We see the best players get paid the most in every field.
If we had a real social Darwinism society, there would still be leaders and strongmen, rich and poor, powerful and weak etc. It would be much more tribal, patriarchal, hierarchal and intolerant and forceful. I'm not necessarily saying that's all a bad thing. I think America 1620 to 1820 or so and even up till the early 1900s in places was the most libertarian society ever existed.
Libertarianism argues well you still had some minimal government action or "force" in Colonial America and on the frontier. Yeah and where you had none on the frontier it was lawless and even more precarious.
Libertarianism theory sounds a lot like communist theory in some respect-We never had pure libertarianism (communism). If we just had pure libertarianism (communism) it wouldn't have any failures and would be a utopia. It's just a pipe dream.
There is plenty of very, very vague talk when it comes to libertarianism. But what does it all translate into? What policies do libertarians actually live and die for?
Only two:
1. It MUST be "anything goes" when it comes to marriage.
2. No rules about pot.
That's it.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Ah, so we should take the word of an apparent hater to best describe what Libertarianism is? Well in that case, I guess Democrats are all closet hardcore Marxist Communists and Republicans are all Neo-Nazi Fascists! I mean that's what their haters say, so clearly it must be true!
The underlying concept of Libertarianism is build right into the name. Liberty. This means having the government do less of just about everything and just leaving people alone to live their lives as they see fit. Less meddling. Less social justice warriors creating unintended bad outcomes. Less religious zealotry driving legislation. Less running around the world beating up the "bad guys" resulting in massive unintended bad outcomes as well. I think Austin Petersen put it best, "I'm running to take over the government so I can leave you alone."
Government over-involvement generally screws things up. Libertarianism is the party that wants to get the government to stop screwing things up and leave the American people alone to live their lives.
The Libertarian position on pretty much any issue is always the simplest solution. The War on Drugs isn't working. Solution: End it. There's a huge debate about the legal status of gay marriage. Solution: Get government completely out of the marriage business and let people live their lives as they see fit. Libertarians are the only party who is really and truly serious about spending less and doing less across the board.
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The Highest Libertarians - The Lawless Ones
