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They also want a deal because they have a $100 billion a year trade surplus with us, and make a lot of money out of us, so they would have to be stark raving mad not to want to get a trade deal and sort this mess out.
Although their initial thinking has always been to prevent us leaving or to keep having votes until they get one they like the result of, as this has been the EU strategy in the past, however it's not going to work this time.
Of course, the EU wants a deal. Have said as much all the way along. Even agreed to a deal.
The UK said they didn't want that deal. Didn't want to pay their fair share of what has already been committed to, didn't want a customs border with Ireland, didn't want a period of time to figure out a workable solution to the Irish border issue.
Despite Boris Johnson's upbeat nonsense, not only has he not come up with a credible alternative to the backstop, it is uncertain whether he can even get a Commons majority for any deal at all.
Stark raving mad describes the situation well enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Of course, the EU wants a deal. Have said as much all the way along. Even agreed to a deal.
The UK said they didn't want that deal. Didn't want to pay their fair share of what has already been committed to, didn't want a customs border with Ireland, didn't want a period of time to figure out a workable solution to the Irish border issue.
Despite Boris Johnson's upbeat nonsense, not only has he not come up with a credible alternative to the backstop, it is uncertain whether he can even get a Commons majority for any deal at all.
Stark raving mad describes the situation well enough.
The UK never said anything of the sort, the only sticking point was the backstop, however the EU are now becoming far more flexible in relation to alternatives, which is why a deal is now looking more likely.
The UK didn't vote for the backstop because the Attorney General Geoffrey Cox QC, a top Barrister (Lawyer) warned of the legal implications and that we could be trapped in a customs union, unable to make trade deals and would have no real representation or voice in relation to EU laws that we would have to adhere to.
The Attorney General offers legal advice to the Crown, Government and Parliament and when your countries own lawyer tells you not to vote for something you tend to take notice and the Attorney General was still sceptical even after the EU added some extra clauses and could not reccommend the backstop to Parliament on all three occcasions it was put before the House and subsequently defeated.
A temporary backstop was proposed but the EU wouldn't set any real timeframe in writing and just added some more vague small print,and again the Attorney General wqould not reccomend the deal.
No country on earth would have signed the backstop agreement, which takes your ability to maake trade deals away, can tie you permanently to a customs union and foreign courts and offers you no representation. A no deal would be far prefereable to the backstop.
So at least get your facts right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe Sands -The Guardian
Following the adoption of the joint instrument, and a UK unilateral Declaration, the attorney general’s additional advice confirmed his earlier view. He concluded, completely correctly, that in the absence of bad faith by the EU, “the legal risk remains unchanged” that the UK could be “indefinitely and involuntarily detained within the protocol’s provisions”.
The attorney general has fulfilled his mandate, offering independence advice. It is spot on. He has properly interpreted the protocol, and understood that while it does not reflect an intention to create a permanent situation, it allows for the possibility that the situation provided for may apply indefinitely.Article 62 cannot be invoked where the circumstance that arises – the indefinite or extended application of the backstop – has been foreseen by the withdrawal agreement. Accordingly, it can offer no assistance.
The argument that it could be invoked if negotiations broke down and the backstop pertained indefinitely is hopeless. It is not even arguable. Nor is the idea that the UK could somehow adopt its own interpretation, or laws, to get around the problem. The withdrawal agreement is an international obligation which trumps domestic law.Moreover, it cannot even be said that article 62 really provides for a unilateral right of termination, as it is likely that the matter would come before the arbitral panel established under the withdrawal agreement. The arbitral panel would have to be persuaded that the extended (or even indefinite) application of the backstop was an unforeseen fundamental change of circumstance.
Philippe Sands is professor of law at University College London.
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Those who claim leavers didn't no what they were voting for are wrong, as they have witnessed the direction the EU has taken over a number of decades and I became increasingly concerned in 2007 when David Miliband, the then Foreign Secretary spoke of his vision for the EU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News (2007)
Foreign Secretary David Miliband has suggested the European Union should work towards including Russia, Middle Eastern and North African countries
He said the EU must "keep our promises to Turkey", adding: "If we fail.... it will signal a deep and dangerous divide between east and west.
"Beyond that we must keep the door open, retaining the incentive for change and the prospect of membership provides."
This would be a "version of the European Free Trade Association that could gradually bring the countries of the Mahgreb, the Middle East and Eastern Europe in line with the single market, not as an alternative to membership, but potentially as a step towards it".
According to the UK Guardian, Boris Johnson is going to tell Jean Claude Junker that he will not even discuss an extension beyond October 31, when they meet tomorrow in Brussels.
The prime minister is expected to tell the commission president: “We’re leaving on 31 October, come what may – so let’s work hard to get a deal in the time remaining. Some MPs have been peddling a myth that I am not serious about getting a deal. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am striving for a deal and I think we can achieve this. I will commit UK officials and my lead negotiator to work flat out to come up with a new agreement without being trapped into EU laws.”
He is expected to add: “There should be no doubt about my determination to take us out on 31 October. I will not ask for an extension. I absolutely believe that our friends in Europe want an orderly exit, so now is the time for serious talks.”
A No 10 source said there was no chance of the prime minister going cap in hand to the EU summit in mid- October. “The PM will not negotiate a delay at the Brussels council,” the source said, before suggesting there could be legal challenges.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713
According to the UK Guardian, Boris Johnson is going to tell Jean Claude Junker that he will not even discuss an extension beyond October 31, when they meet tomorrow in Brussels.
Good.
It's time to just leave.
Eveyone I know is sick to the back teeth of the EU.
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has said the Government will "behave lawfully" regarding Brexit. Speaking on the Today programme, he said: "The UK Government is always going to behave lawfully. I think the suggestion otherwise is nonsense. We, of course, take these considerations very seriously. At the same time, the legislation that was required, the surrender bill, is deeply, deeply flawed."
The Foreign Secretary added: "But the Government will comply with the law. It goes without saying, frankly."
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has said the Government will "behave lawfully" regarding Brexit. Speaking on the Today programme, he said: "The UK Government is always going to behave lawfully. I think the suggestion otherwise is nonsense. We, of course, take these considerations very seriously. At the same time, the legislation that was required, the surrender bill, is deeply, deeply flawed."
The Foreign Secretary added: "But the Government will comply with the law. It goes without saying, frankly."
Well this is interesting, given the PM's repeated statements that he will not comply with the law under any circumstances. I wonder who is telling the truth.
Well this is interesting, given the PM's repeated statements that he will not comply with the law under any circumstances. I wonder who is telling the truth.
To put it generously, your statement is flatly false. The Prime Minister has never said even one time that he would not comply with the law. Only that he would not request a Brexit extension beyond October 31.
To put it generously, your statement is flatly false. The Prime Minister has never said even one time that he would not comply with the law. Only that he would not request a Brexit extension beyond October 31.
Your post is splitting hairs.
He said he would not under any circumstances request an extension.
The law requires him to request an extension under certain circumstances.
Hence the PM is essentially saying he will not comply with the law should those circumstances arise.
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