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Old 11-13-2016, 12:28 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,452,870 times
Reputation: 14266

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I think it's no secret to anyone around here that I dislike Trump. Also, I dislike social conservatives.

But look, I get why people voted for Trump. While I think Trump himself is a repugnant excuse for a human being, I understand that most of his supporters are not racists, rednecks, or otherwise deplorables (although here on city-data might be a different story..). Trump is really a reaction to the same problem that conservatives ironically fight against when you ask them about it directly: the growing economic inequality in our nation. The hollowing out of the middle class is not new. Globalization has taken a heavy toll. Good manufacturing jobs left, and ****ty part-time McJobs in the service industry were a big step down. That middle part of the economic spectrum has been treading water for a long time now, and they're rightfully getting pissed and desperate. They didn't get real answers from Democrats; didn't get much in real answers from Republicans, either. We have a structural employment problem in this country; that's the crux of it. Both Trump and Sanders harnessed that same energy; their directions of travel with it are of course quite different.

And Democrats have some real soul searching and rebuilding to do. If they leave it at "Comey cost us the election," it will cost them many, many more. Democrats have lost their way and lost touch with an important segment of their previous base, as evidenced by many counties in states like Ohio that went for Obama four years ago and now supported Trump. Democrats will need to rebuild themselves as a party that credibly connects again with working class people. They also need to find some new answers to our structural employment problem.

Where I disagree with the Trump supporters is if the guy they just elected will do them any good. There is much reason to think that Trump, while he talks a good game, is lacking in character and not up to the job. And many of his ideas on isolationism are questionable at best and downright economically dangerous at worst. Not only do I doubt those manufacturing jobs are ever coming back, I doubt they will even done by humans soon; automation and artificial intelligence is booming. Trump may well end up hurting those who most depended on him.

Too much inequality in any society is just not good. People need jobs that provide them with sufficient livelihood. If not, it will result in anger and instability, and that anger will sooner or later be harnessed by a change agent. The question is if it's someone with the nation's best interests at heart or a demagogue who will suit a narrow, personal interest. The danger is that when people get desperate enough, they stop distinguishing as closely between the two.

Here's a sobering fact for Democrats:

Quote:
A party that keeps the White House for eight years customarily suffers losses elsewhere, as if the electorate insists on some kind of equilibrium. That happened under Bill Clinton and again under George W. Bush — but not to the extent that it has happened under Obama.

His presidency will end with Democrats in possession of 11 fewer Senate seats (depending on how you count), more than 60 fewer House seats, at least 14 fewer governorships and more than 900 fewer seats in state legislatures than when it began. That’s a staggering toll.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:32 AM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,949,093 times
Reputation: 12122
People are focusing too much on the two candidates as people and not enough on the systemic reasons that led to trump and Hillary as the candidates.

We got those two because this the federal government is self-serving and rotten. No president will change that. It's like gangrene that has set in and trying to treat it with a shot of penicillin.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:35 AM
 
2,405 posts, read 1,446,604 times
Reputation: 1175
In a world where work becomes scarcer due to competition and automation, it may just be disingenuous to think anything will reverse the decline of the middle class.

Recent data indicates that the rich are richer than ever, and the rest of the world...isn't.

Outlook on the Global Agenda 2015 - Reports - World Economic Forum

I don't think anyone can reverse that trend. At this point, I think Elon Musk nailed it:

Elon Musk Thinks Automation Will Lead to a Universal Basic Income
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:55 AM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,876,419 times
Reputation: 6556
We don't need to tax and regulate American businesses so much. And we don't need 1-2 million immigrants every year competing for jobs, driving down wages and driving up the cost of living and being an annoyance everyway possible under the sun. And why do we need huge trade deficits, leaving the valuable US market open while other countries practice mercantilism? And all this talk about automation, but profitable businesses are just shutting down here and setting up in places like Mexico mostly for lower taxes and regulations not just labor costs. They really should be barriers to that, that's a constitutional power.

And that not getting into the social issues and how liberals are just an affront on all things America and want to control everything you say and do.
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Old 11-13-2016, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,761,514 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombleywomberly View Post
In a world where work becomes scarcer due to competition and automation, it may just be disingenuous to think anything will reverse the decline of the middle class.

Recent data indicates that the rich are richer than ever, and the rest of the world...isn't.

Outlook on the Global Agenda 2015 - Reports - World Economic Forum

I don't think anyone can reverse that trend. At this point, I think Elon Musk nailed it:

Elon Musk Thinks Automation Will Lead to a Universal Basic Income
Wow, real post. There's another wombley on here who posts nothing but annoying, childish questions. Do you work in shifts?
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:00 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Wow, real post. There's another wombley on here who posts nothing but annoying, childish questions. Do you work in shifts?
LOL. I was a little weirded out too. Even repped it. But I do the same with some of the folks on the right here too. Theres some assumptions about my views that when I post otherwise they just all stare, and wonder if I am being held hostage.

The best gun control is using 2 hands.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:04 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,847,766 times
Reputation: 20030
still making judgements about trump based on what the clinton campaign shoved in our faces. for two years all we have heard about trump is what a jackass he is, and how he hates everyone that isnt him, etc. etc. etc.

if you think about this you will agree with what i just said. unless you have met him in person, and talked to him, you have absolutely NO CLUE about who trump really is. when obama won in 2008, i knew what he was going to do in office, but i gave him a chance and he didnt disappoint me as to what he was going to do.

i have an idea of what trump is going to do, and again i am going to give him that chance. it would be in your best interests to do the same. we need to hold our politicians feet to the fire, and let them know we are watching.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:04 AM
 
2,405 posts, read 1,446,604 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Wow, real post. There's another wombley on here who posts nothing but annoying, childish questions. Do you work in shifts?
Yeah, Mr. Soros pays a whole team of us.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,761,514 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
LOL. I was a little weirded out too. Even repped it. But I do the same with some of the folks on the right here too. Theres some assumptions about my views that when I post otherwise they just all stare, and wonder if I am being held hostage.

The best gun control is using 2 hands.
Me too. I wanna see more of that wombley.
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Old 11-13-2016, 01:15 AM
 
2,405 posts, read 1,446,604 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Me too. I wanna see more of that wombley.
I'll tell Mr. Soros.
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