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Many blue-staters may think it doesn't exist, but when you live in an area where homophobia is deeply ingrained in the culture, it's not uncommon to even meet an atheist who is homophobic. The other night I had a conversation about homosexuality with an atheist friend and it was pretty eye opening (he doesn't know that I struggle with my sexuality nor will I ever tell him).
Most homophobes hide behind the Bible as their reason for hating the LGBT community. Yet, this doesn't tell the complete picture as the Bible has hundreds if not thousands of prohibitions and almost nothing gets people into the kind of tizzy that homosexuality does. Talking about homosexuality with this atheist gave me insight into why that is.
He is against gay people because he believes he says the natural order of evolution is for a species to reproduce and the strong to survive, and gay people are counter to that. He didn't hide behind a "love the sinner and hate the sin" mantra that most Christians do. He said he hates gay people entirely and that they shouldn't exist, and the reason for that is they are weak, effeminate men who refuse to reproduce naturally. He then went on to say if he ever has kids that are gay, he will cut them off from the family because there is no point in supporting a child who isn't going to do what humans naturally do; reproduce and further their lineage. He says homosexuality is evolution in action; the weak being cast aside while the strong reproduce.
This made me think of the general mindset of homophobia and why homosexuality bothers people so much. While I totally don't agree with my friend (I didn't tell him that though because I don't want him to suspect I might be gay), I at least respect the fact that he's honest about his opinion and doesn't hide behind religion like most homophobic people do. I think this same general mindset prevails among the religious, though they don't realize it and will never admit it. That's why out of all the prohibitions in the Bible, homosexuality gets them so much more fired up. They see it as an affront to masculinity and "survival of the fittest", a natural human instinct. This is also why minds are so slow, if not impossible, to change on this issue. The religion thing is just a front. Underneath that, homosexuality makes them extremely uncomfortable. Attacking homophobia from a religious angle doesn't address the underlying reason that person is homophobic.
I did mention I thought that homosexuality could be evolution's way of population control, as there are too many people on this planet and evolution does have a way of naturally bringing things back into balance.
Does anybody else agree? What do you think is the best answer to this mindset? It's something that will need to be addressed if minds are ever to be changed on this issue in red states. A lot of people have this idea that homophobia is on its way out and that for the most part it is accepted in 2017, but that isn't the case. A lot of people who are homophobic will never be so in the face of somebody they know is gay, but behind closed doors it comes out. My friend is actually completely civil around gay people despite being deeply homophobic. Thoughts?
The ick factor has always been the prime motivation, the religious mess are just trappings to wrap around it to attempt to absolve self guilt on the matter and push the buck down the road to "the big guy".
Maybe you can appeal to the idea that people should, in general, just be left alone unless they are hurting others?
Sounds like your friend has problems - beyond his pretty questionable understanding of evolution.
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He is against gay people because he believes he says the natural order of evolution is for a species to reproduce and the strong to survive, and gay people are counter to that.
Evolution takes place in populations, not individuals. And humans are social creatures. Your chance of raising children is much higher in some sort of society structure - be it a tribe or a klan or a village - than if you're just the parents and offspring. The nuclear family is a modern invention.
As for evolution, you share 50% of your DNA with your brother, 25% with a niece or nephew. Even if you have no offspring of your own, it's still an evolutionary advantage to help them along. And vice versa - having adults around to hunt & gather who do not add competing offspring benefits those who do breed. If our forefathers on the savannah had chased off men of fertile age for not liking women, it would have reduced their chance of survival. Men reach fertile age pretty much at the time they become passable fighters as well. Throwing away the effort invested in bringing up a young man who can hunt and fight because he wouldn't breed? It's an absurd notion.
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He said he hates gay people entirely and that they shouldn't exist
Yet they do. Nature produces them. If he really believes in the natural order, he probably shouldn't ignore the evidence in front of his eyes.
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He then went on to say if he ever has kids that are gay, he will cut them off from the family...
Serious issues.
Sounds like he has some unresolved problems in the entire attraction/repulsion department to deal with and has chosen to wrap it in a pseudoscientific rationale.
I think that your homophobic friend's genes should probably be left out of the gene pool. That level of self serving certainty is a symptom of the severe fanaticism the world, let alone his possibly gay neighbors, do not need.
The ick factor has always been the prime motivation, the religious mess are just trappings to wrap around it to attempt to absolve self guilt on the matter and push the buck down the road to "the big guy".
Maybe you can appeal to the idea that people should, in general, just be left alone unless they are hurting others?
I think the ick factor is overemphasized/ overstated by many males. Have you ever been on Craigslist? It's filled with married closeted bisexual men looking to fool around with another dude. Whenever I meet a guy who acts totally grossed out about homosexuality, like over the top grossed out, I'm usually suspicious.
I think the ick factor is overemphasized/ overstated by many males. Have you ever been on Craigslist? It's filled with married closeted bisexual men looking to fool around with another dude. Whenever I meet a guy who acts totally grossed out about homosexuality, like over the top grossed out, I'm usually suspicious.
Ah that's the "Cloak of invisibility"/"I'm not gay, really, look at how much I'm totally not gay!" factor. I doubt it is a primary driver of homophobia because, statistically speaking, closeted self hating homosexuals do not compose a large enough portion of the population to be a prime driver of that kind of mentality.
Ah that's the "Cloak of invisibility"/"I'm not gay, really, look at how much I'm totally not gay!" factor. I doubt it is a primary driver of homophobia because, statistically speaking, closeted self hating homosexuals do not compose a large enough portion of the population to be a prime driver of that kind of mentality.
I don't think these people are primarily closeted self hating homosexuals, as much as they're just horny and curious closeted bisexuals. Many men believe that if other people, particularly women, knew of their bi-curiosity/ bisexuality, then they'd never live it down or get another girlfriend for the rest of their lives.
I don't think these people are primarily closeted self hating homosexuals, as much as they're just horny and curious closeted bisexuals. Many men believe that if other people, particularly women, knew of their bi-curiosity/ bisexuality, then they'd never live it down or get another girlfriend for the rest of their lives.
Maybe, but that is still a relatively tiny population of individuals.
I'm a social worker/ therapist, and generally hear all about it.
That is probably artificially inflating the numbers in your view, I am assuming you know what selection bias is?
Basically, a conflicted gay or bisexual person is orders of magnitude more likely to seek therapy than a person that is completely comfortable with their sexuality.
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