First I am not a Rudi Giuliani fan, I watched his belligerent mentality during the process from campaigning to Presidential Election.
I was thankful that he did not gain a position in the administration.
As to this:
Travel and Immigration Ban.
Diplomacy is what Trump needs to learn and he needs to learn how it work, why its utilized and what is the value of it.
Trump does not even have Ambassadors in place in these nations he banned, and he has not communicated with those whom have been there. The Ambassadors is whom should have been the first to introduce such aims of travel and immigration suspensions within any time frame unto foreign nations and he should have addressed the public first. That is what I see as a big issue with the en-actions of the Executive Order. He ignored protocols, and omitted to consult with the divisions and departments that should have been his first step and act. Trump is now talking "after the act and fact", he should learn to talk first. But with the dictator mentality, he thinks he does not have to address the people, until he wants to 'after he does stuff'. That is not how America works, and it certainly is not following with his own words, of turning American back over to the people and the choice and decisions of the people.
PATIENCE MATTERS.............
Trump should consider the value of what that means.
One might go back and look in
recent history at the mentality of the Republican system and many of its followers, as to what they have been spinning within thought, whith themselves toward the Muslim for a span of a decade or more.
go back further
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A hundred years ago, Muslims were furious over an immigration bill whose origins lay with advocacy by a headstrong and loudmouthed Republican in the White House.
The anti-immigration bill offended the Ottoman Empire, the rotting Caliphate of Islam soon to be defeated at the hands of America and the West, by banning the entry of “all polygamists, or persons who admit their belief in the practice of polygamy.”
This, as was pointed out at the time, would prohibit the entry of the “entire Mohammedan world” into the United States.
And indeed it would.
The battle had begun earlier when President Theodore Roosevelt had declared in his State of the Union address back in 1906 that Congress needed to have the power to “deal radically and efficiently with polygamy.” The Immigration Act of 1907, signed into law by President Theodore Roosevelt, had banned “polygamists, or persons who admit their belief in the practice of polygamy.”
It was the last part that was most significant because it made clear what had only been implied.
The Immigration Act of 1891 had merely banned polygamists. The newest law banned anyone who believed in the practice of polygamy. That group included every faithful believing Muslim.
The Ottoman Empire’s representatives argued that their immigrants believed in the practice of polygamy, but wouldn’t actually take more than one wife. This argument echoes the current contention that Muslim immigrants may believe in a Jihad against non-Muslims without actually engaging in terrorism. That type of argument proved far less convincing to Americans than it does today.
These amazing facts, uncovered by @rushetteny reveal part of the long controversial history of battles over Islamic migration into America. When Teddy Roosevelt Banned Muslims from America | Frontpage Mag
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Whether it using alternative words, such as Polygamist, Danger of other words, the aim and intent is the same.
A compilation discussing
the rudiments of freedom of religion.
Fact: Christianity is not Islam and Islam is not Christianity. Those are variables that are indisputable and the books they aspires to to learn of their respective Religious understanding, are unique to each.
Not at this time, nor a near time in the future will one Religion obliterate the other. Terrorist has exist in both religions, as well as among the various sects of each respective religion. The divides
within Each respective Religions themselves, is a matter of many beliefs. That is unlikely to be changed by a ban on either religion in this country or in another country, not in a Christian populated country, not in a Muslim populated country. Those things as of long history and long challenges, conflicts, as well as co-exiting in various countries.
America.... If one is and wants to be an American, that become premier over what their religion is. This has been within the founding principles of America. Freedom of Religion.
Quote:
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The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion
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How much did American change these views when it began to canvas the world looking for "Oil" ? that not only changed many aspect of how America as its claim as a Christian Nation, began to embrace many Religious Ideologies in the cooperative pursuits of resource and wealth gathering, as well as wealthy manipulation.
How was the U.S. and its relation with Iran, when the Shah of Iran whom was favorable to American's interest, but changed dramatically when the Shah was deposed. Likewise so, with Iraq, how was that relation when all elements of American interaction with Iraq dominantly beneficial to American interest, but changed, when Iraq inquired about its interest. This is true in and within all the Arab nations interactions and relations with Americans over a long span of history.
Aside from the conflicts of ideology within Religious challenges within Islam, such as that of the Muslim Religion of the Arab Nations. We can't omit, what was American and Other Western Influences, when they engaged "Policy Shift" when the interplay came to focus on resource accessibility and resource acquisitions. We regularily switched side of policy support based on who was in power, and it advanced to be about "whom we wanted to be in power" relative to our accessibility and acquisitions wants.
How much did we spend, as a means of obligating these nations to be of favor for or against things of our choices, and when ideology factions changed the hands of power, and we had to restructure agreements, how unwilling we were to accommodate the changes requested by the incoming ideological faction.
One can go back and look at core components of Bin Laden's grievances, which included challenges to western meddling, western manipulations and how "Oil" accessibility played into that scenario. We seem to forget, when we go to these nations and play Policy Shift games, that we also educated many of these people in our Western Universities, and when they returned home, they could see more clearly the manipulative agenda that was enacted and engaged, and they began to speak up, stand up, and the less resolve they got to address their grievances, the more we saw a rise not only of secularist conflicts, we saw the enactment of terror tactics increase, which on surface look to be purely about Islamic religious conflict, but are we looking into some of the fueling elements that are intermixed within the roots of what is involved within those conflicts
taking on the tonality of the warring terror activities that we see today.
America cannot assume blameless because the average citizen has not awareness of what is involved in resource acquisitions around the globe. The average citizen has not a clue, they only know when they go to the gas pump, there is fuel, and they know that when they pursue to purchase fuel, the cost is among the lowest in the Western world. One does not ask, how did that come to be? We've seen commodity games, that played out in a variety of ways, from the 1970's claim of gas rations, to the creation of OPEC, to the transition from the Gold Standard, to the Federal Reserved Note. Many who live today, have no idea to even consider the impact of these things. When OPEC demanded Gold for Oil, the price of Gold went from $300 an ounce, to over $800 an ounce, and when that dispute was settled and the return to using Federal Reserved Notes, the price of Gold fell, and took on a different trajectory is what drove it to rise. The average American does not even understand the nature of finances when it comes to basic investing in a localized community, they certainly have no interest to have investigated or give attention or had concerns to what is monetary values and natural resources on the International stage.
When it comes to the use of the word Terrorist, does America call American's whom were KKK and killed Millions of black Americans, "terrorist'. when in fact that is precisely what they were and what they are still to this day.
We use the words Insurgent, Terrorist and Radical Faction and such, but do we understand what is driving the groups?
As to Religion, we have millions of Muslims, who consider themselves 100% America, and we have Millions more who want to be American's, they may not want to stop being of the Muslim Religion, but they want to be American Citizens who support American Values and the American System. Have we investigated those thought with honest investigations to seek to understand? Have we grasp or sought to grasp why there is a First Amendment, that supports Freedom of Religion and Stands against making Religious based laws. Then we have to ask a question? For those who make claim to be fervent supporters of the Constitution, then why are they of such determination to violate the First Amendment? It is not much different than a segment did for centuries, claim to be ferent supporters of the Constitution, but still wanted to support slavery because it was a format of economic and monetary benefit solely to them? they were willing to violate the Constitutions own words, of Freedom and Equality, Liberty and Democracy for All.
Here we are in the 21st Century still doing the same things over and over and over. Now, does any nation have the right to vet and clear any who choose to immigrate, then that answer is "yes", because the oath and stand of claim as an American is a valuable point, as well as it is a valuable point and aim to ensure that all who come with a desire of claim to be an American, has that claim as their pure motivation.
Amerian Greed is what eroded those processes of Vetting, when time advanced and people needed labor for the early railroads, they did not concern themselves with vetting the Chinese, they simply filled up the steam ships for the sake of cheap labor, the same is true when America wanted to build good Oil relations with Iran, not only did we open the border, we brought their military here and trained them as well as educated their wealthy, and allowed quick process entry of any who held a level of monetary resources. We did the exact same with Japan, when we relied on them for cheap labor and massive imports as we began to outsource our appliance and other goods to Japan, and when they gained the high status on the economic scale, we opened the borders and rubber stamped passports and issued visa, as if its was a ticket to a movie. We have done this with many many nations over a long period of time, based on monetary standing and the open door accessibility to get than money to gravitate back into the American landscape.
We did the same thing across the globe with any nations that had resources that we wanted accessibility and desired to acquire.
Now, we want to go back and fix what we chose to dismantle and weaken as if to break, for the sake of monetary greed.
We wonder why those people have conflicts, but we don't want to acknowledge the questions of "did we deal fairly with those nations during the decades past in our resource aims, did we play policy shift games based on who was in power, or whom we wanted to be in power?
We listen to propaganda without provocation to be inquiring, we listen to punditry with concern to be discerning, and we have fictions of influences that go all the way into the delusions of white supremacist mentality, to think we have done no wrong and we are never of any ill conducts and self consumed motivations that can and often do in times come at the detriment unto others. We have witnessed in the past year, the vast mass of uneducated within our population, we've seen the expanse of how saturated the uninformed reverberate through the vastness of our population.
We watched for the past 8 yrs how people fought against every effort to restore diplomacy and fair play among nations, we saw a segment call it weakness, because they don't grasp the value of diplomacy nor respect for others in the world as having their rights to be. Again, we cannot eliminate the fictions of white supremacist madness and the influence it has in promoting ignorance and choosing the lack of concern to be discerning.
We push issue with China about Currency because of our concerns, even when it was "us" who exported our Industry to them, they did not come and take it. Yet, we say, change your current to make it float. China say,s that is not possible at this time, when we have still more than 1 billion people who are multi levels below even the back low of poverty. Yet, we say, "we don't care", float your currency. We have no idea of the devastation that would come to China if it took such actions, when it has more than three times the whole population of America to concern itself with, not just for the sake of being import consumer, they are not yet able to be functioning consumers of even Chinese produced goods, when the media income among the poor is still in ranges (Goldman Sachs estimates that 387 million rural workers — half the working population — earn about $2,000 a year), where as exchange rates put that at a equivalency some where near $10,000 a year in US Dollars terms). which does not equate to the global break down of American wage that equates at a rate of $47,000.
Again, I can be assured that the "one liner" and "slap stick" crowd of commentators won't grasp any of this. (Therefore, I will stick with talking about the expanded versions of what the subject evokes of which has to become part of the exploration of subject matter).
What did we learn from Iraq, and what did the Soviet Union Learn for their trek into Afghanistan, one thing the Soviets found was economic devastation of their own lands, the same as America found that protracted war on foreign lands, also met with economic devastation on its own homeland, and mounting Trillions of dollars of debt.. We found out way back in Vietnam, that bullets and bombs can't defeat ideology. Yet, today, we have millions of former Vietnamese people whom are and claim and live their lives as 100% American, of Vietnamese heritage, yet, not less an American.
We have many things to look at, as it relates to what is and how is religion. Was not the early settlers of the mindset to call the American Indian a heathen, and proceed ignore and discredit the religion of the American Indian and send out their missionaries to try and covert them to Westernized Christianity. did we not see the same move across Africa, starting with guns, some starting with missionaries to convert the people to Christianity, and a resulting outcome saw Africa plundered for 100's of years, and still up to this day. We see factions in Africa today, who have and are reclaiming their original religion. It does not mean they are Anti American, it means they are pro being of the heritage of their nations and choosing their religious ideology as they desire. When they immigrate to American, they aim to become regarded as 100% American of African origins, whom may be Christian or may be of Muslim religion, but never the less they want to be and are Americans.
We saw during slavery a stripping of everything, from cultural heritage, religious heritage and even stripped of their birth given names, and forced to adopt assigned nations, and then made to carry the surname of their captors who considers themselves as masters, over other people.
Thus so, when a topic of this comes up, those who see it for the surface flair, miss much in what is being dealt with, we see the pushing of fear, as the same we saw for 8 yrs under the Bush terms, where one could not turn on the news without the promotion of the word "Terrorist" leading the headlines. Yet, we were invading them and their lands, those we did not want to be called the Terrorist, we chose to call ourselves "liberators". We failed to grasp how the usage of words serve to inflame situations, and send them on a trajectory of madness.
ISIS members said themselves, they formed while being held in the Bush Era Created camps, but let The propaganda of the Current Republican establishment want to tell us they were formed by every other means, except what the Leadership of ISIS told them, as to their formation. The leader further said, without those camps, there was no way they would have ever come together and joined forces and certainly not ever in Iraq under Saddam, because he would have destroyed them before they developed to make formation.
Radical Islam is what? exactly what its label says, it become a radical form of ideology, that become stern in trying to force its aims into a collective that is trying to establish itself as a totalitarianism of organizations with root level values. It has tried to wipe out all history as if to make itself as a stand alone. It does not represent the scope of what is Islam, it is a factions that seeks to establish itself and build a wall that omits itself from world influences. It seeks by force to establish itself. It is not of the interest of the world nor does it aspire the the elements of peace that is often denoted as a core tenant of Islam as generalized premise of Religious Ideology. The history of the Arab regions is long, and within that history it embraced advances in Mathematics, Astronomy, Medicine, Horticulture, Music, Philosophy and a variety of other fields that helped advance civilizations.
Quote:
ARAB CONTRIBUTIONS TO CIVILIZATION
The years between the seventh and thirteenth centuries mark a period in history when culture and learning flourished in North Africa, Asia, Southern Europe, and the Middle East. When one sets aside the vagaries of politics, intrigue, mistrust, and suspicion which have plagues Man‘s history, one finds that the Arab world continue to spin out the thread of earliest recorded civilization. It enhanced and developed the arts and sciences and preserved the libraries of the early centuries of the Greek, Roman, and Byzantine cultures. Indeed, during the Dark Ages of Europe, much learning was preserved for the world through the Arab libraries in the universities of Morocco (Fez), Mali (Timbuktu) and Egypt (al-Azhar). From this period of Arab influence, new words such as orange, sugar, coffee, sofa, satin, and algebra filtered into the languages of Europe and eventually into our own. New discoveries were made in the sciences and arts which improved the life and condition of Man, and thousands of Arab contributions have become an integral part of human civilization.
PHILOSOPHY
Arab philosophers effectively integrated faith and scientific fact, letting one exit within the framework of the other. The Arab philosophers after Byzantium re-discovered the classic philosophy of Aristotle, Plotinus, and Plato in attempting to find answers to the fundamental questions concerning God‘s creation of the universe, the nature and destiny of the human soul, and the true existence of the seen as the unseen.
ADC | Arab Contributions to Civilization
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We have a lot to learn in a wide range of categories, here in America, we have not yet learned to overcome the ignorance of racism based on skin color, and now we rage off into the advent of religious prejudices.
Immigration's is matter that is solely a responsible failure of Americans based and driven by American shifting cycles of greed chasing. President Obama 8 yrs asked the Republican to present a comprehensive Immigration Plan, they instead took a pledge to "do nothing" and "ignorance everything" and "to criticize anything". Now we have moved to dire fear rather than to develop a structured program, to rebuild out immigration system.
We are taking the route of what Chairman Mao did in China when it was trying to get from under the impacts of what British Rule invoked upon and against them), they resulted to kill of millions of their own, close their doors and go into a cycle of long terms destitution, as a means to cleanse itself for unification and national value in the mentalities of its populations.
That process does not work in the 21st Century, and the world won't stand still for us to engage such programming.
Currently, if Trump was not of such aggressive non thinking arrogance, he would have built his cabinet and work within its systems and developed a comprehensive immigration program. Not only did he fail to do that, he took a shoot from the hip act, of invoking a ban, and thus inflamed and invoked a level of mistrust against America that will take many years to heal and mend. He may well have invited a mass of retributions that we may not be able to withstand.
We still have factions within this nations, seeking the making of race wars, and race division and others whom are anti government in every regard, who've armed themselves with lusting for such conflicts. At the same time, we are enraging the outside world. Ignorance has destroyed many Empires in the past, and we must not assume ourselves as being exempt from such potential and even such possibility.
Trump does not have the decorum to even stand up at this time and address the general public and world community, that is an even greater tragedy within his conduct and actions. He has not considered a great many things in the ways he approached his aims. Then to go ask a nut like Giuliani whom demonstrated a level of belligerence that had every elements of racist style makings, to address another format of prejudiced policy development.
This is VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
Again I defer to "the point that its the manner and method of trumps conduct, that is of great concern, everyone knows we must improve immigration and reform it, we've known that for how many decades, it is at this point a matter of how its approached. Therefore I will again,
refer to this post, which addresses "manner and mode"... Not that we don't need to screen people better, we may well need to also pay attention to our internal population as our recent events have been internal, and ask if our values and methods are making our own people willing to join in terrorist activity? the question that follows, is how will Trumps recent actions impact more Americans to become willing to join in terrorist activity? Point!! a President has to be careful how they Preside !!!!! Trump has to learn the meaning of that... or he will bring us challenges we never dreamed of, both internally and from external entities. The A-Bomb is not to be leaded on as a deterrent in such matters of thinking in terms of power, for is certainly is not the answer; Therefore, take it off the table of the mind, unless one is willing to blow up its own nation..... directly or indirectly. Diplomacy is what Trump needs to learn and he needs to learn what is the value of it.
He does not even have Ambassadors in place in these nations he banned whom should have been the first to introduce such aims of travel and immigration suspensions within any time frame. He wants to show people he will do what he says, which is fine, but it about "how you do it" and the shoot from the him, has him presented as if he is acting like a foolish child, with the likes of a rabid Republican system pushing and supporting and trying to defend the violation of every protocol of good governance. It's more important in how things are done, this is what has truly riled people to such degrees. People understand its at this time its "a temporary ban", but the language also says, "until a time that "
I" fell it is sufficient", where it should say, until a time "we as Americans" feel it is sufficient. that means, he pursues and gains consensus from the American people. It should have been done with Ambassadors in place and fully allowed to a communicate the plan and actions before they were taken.
We have a vast amount of elements to engage for the broad spectrum in addressing of this subject thread. 
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