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Bad idea. People should be hired based on the abilities and skill sets they bring to a job. None of their unrelated information be it gender, race, religion, or any other item that is unrelated to their ability to perform the job and safely co-exist with their co-workers should be a consideration.
To arbitrarily assign preference to a gender is no different than saying, we're only going to hire white Christian men over all other applicants. Just like quotas in the workforce, percentages of this <insert protected class here>, are not justifiable nor beneficial to the company or the production it gets from its workers. It is discrimination, plain and simple.
GE isn't a multi billion dollar company because they're stupid.
You guys trust corporations to do everything else without question. Why the skepticism now?
Don't worry I'm sure other companies will be just fine
I don't know what other companies have to do with it.
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Originally Posted by dashrendar4454
Encourage your own kids then. Nothing else you can do. We don't need any laws or quotas or legs up
I do encourage my own kids, but I will also demand that those around them do not pressure gender roles. That's their teachers, fellow students, their professors, their colleagues, and their employers.
And it's not about legs up when white males are looking down their noses at everyone and always have been. It's just pushing them aside a bit so we can all stand level from the ground up.
It is the same thing. I'll share a story about middle school. After a few months, my math teacher mad a call to the students about joining the math team. I think this meant finishing a test in a certain time period, but I don't remember the details.
I didn't think about joining the math team. All of the continuing members where boys. I didn't particularly have any interest. My math teacher approached me after class and said, hey you scored in the top 2 of class why aren't you joining the math team - we need you! I asked her what it entailed - weekly meetings for practice and we did 4 or so competitions a year. Oh and the competitions meant field trips. Some were overnight trips. I was sold then.
I continued on with math team through senior year of high school. I was a good math student. I wasn't joined by any other women. There were some good female math students, but they didn't get encouraged to participate in that way. They ended up doing other things.
Most of my fellow math teammates were welcoming and friendly. But as I was graduating, the lower classman that was headed towards captain status was really arrogant, and I could see how it would easily turn other people off. Colleagues matter.
I didn't continue on the STEM path (and that is a whole separate topic...likely because I had no idea what engineers or mathematicians or statisticians did. Our education system does an awful job of making STEM feel fun and practical.)
It doesn't take much to steer women into STEM. Communicating it is an option, and making us feel welcome when we get there is required. A lot of time the lack of a welcoming atmosphere is what causes the turnover.
So... you received encouragement from your math teacher, joined the math team, were welcomed by your teammates and participated in competitions. You were fully exposed to what math is about. But in the end it just wasn't something that you were wanted to continue with because it wasn't really that interesting. The system worked perfectly for you. Yet still you come on here with all the standard feminist complaints. Women aren't "steered" enough or made to think math is fun and practical enough. There really is no solution that will satisfy people like you.
I don't know what other companies have to do with it.
I do encourage my own kids, but I will also demand that those around them do not pressure gender roles. That's their teachers, fellow students, their professors, their colleagues, and their employers.
And it's not about legs up when white males are looking down their noses at everyone and always have been. It's just pushing them aside a bit so we can all stand level from the ground up.
You suffer from racist/misandrist delusions. This is paranoia, a problem existing entirely within your own mind. Society cannot solve it for you, but at least it ought to stop feeding and justifying it.
You suffer from racist/misandrist delusions. This is paranoia, a problem existing entirely within your own mind. Society cannot solve it for you, but at least it ought to stop feeding and justifying it.
Are you really attempting to deny white male domination in western history? Stunning.
Exactly - and that is the point. How do we grow the pool of women in STEM so that they are getting hired because they are the best candidates?
How do we "grow the pool?"? Well pretty easy. You take a group a first-graders, you count the little noses, and every little nose gets EXACTLY THE SAME text-book, a note-book and a pen ( or pencil.) Then you say "Dear boys and girls, here it is - a couple of math equations; who will be the first one to figure it out? Once you are done, please raise your hand."
That's all to it. There are no "magic solutions" to "grow pools" of girls-mathematicians; - it's teaching everyone the same, encouraging everyone in the same way, and accepting the outcome for what it is.
That's the way I have been raised, that was the whole setting in the classroom, but when I am reporting to you the results, that girls were STILL falling behind boys in math and physics, you somehow dismiss these results, refusing to believe that that's precisely what it is, and probably still looking for "magic solutions" to *fix the problem.*
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That is an aspect to this all, but it is not that simple. And it doesn't address why there are less women entering STEM in the beginning well before family years (family pressures feverishly become a bigger deal after they've started their degrees or their early careers).
Agree. I also was partially raised in USSR and very familiar with the system. And yes, all the central Asian and caucasus minorities were not good in STEM and received affirmative action. There was actually only one minority (the Jews) that outperformed the slavic groups.
I am not sure about "Jews outperforming Slavic group," but Jews are greatly represented in scientific circles OVERALL - be that Russia, Germany or the US - that is a yes.
P.S. I am not certain how exactly it worked with minorities and "affirmative action" in math in science. It could be obviously done in Humanities ( keeping in mind that so much of it was regurgitated propaganda,) but in Tech. Universities you couldn't progress from one level to another without passing exams. So how could you get "affirmative action" without at least SOME abilities in those subjects - I have no idea)))
Are you really attempting to deny white male domination in western history? Stunning.
White men, settlers and their families, built this country, the best country in the world. To deny their bravery, success, and influence is absurd. You should be grateful for white men who built this country instead of hating them.
I remember back in college in my Psychology class. There was great interest in female math-phobia. That's less of a problem today, but it still doesn't change the bigger problem. Women do not make the same career choices as men. I work in IT. It pays very very very well ... and almost no women have even the slightest interest in working in IT. Yes there are some. Quite a few of the best techs I've ever known were women. But forcing some kind of quota regardless of qualification just creates more problems -- in any field. Because it happens in IT, then it is often assumed that because an IT professional is a woman, she doesn't know what the hell she's doing. She got hired to make the company look more diverse and inclusive. Putting gender or any other demographic over competence and qualifications deepens that perception because it dumps a lot of incompetent women techs into the IT workforce.
The same is true for engineers, or executives or anything else. STEM programs are no different. Force feeding women or blacks in order to make the world look the way you think it should just creates more problems. As long as there is no ban in place preventing women from going into any field they want to, then they can go right ahead and prove themselves in whatever field they choose.
Doesn't change the fact that women tend to choose lower paying jobs like social work or being teachers or nurses or school counselors or running daycare centers, etc. Just because these jobs tend to pay less doesn't make the women who choose them wrong. They obviously have other priorities besides money. Can you imagine the insanity if hospitals insisted that 50% of the nurses must be men??
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You take a group a first-graders, you count the little noses, and every little nose gets EXACTLY THE SAME text-book, a note-book and a pen ( or pencil.) Then you say "Dear boys and girls, here it is - a couple of math equations; who will be the first one to figure it out? Once you are done, please raise your hand."
