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Risk of death and certain death are not the same. You are not arguing apples to apples. once the child is born, we have other options to allow others to take responsibility over the child. Before that, the mother refusing responsibility is a death sentence. The mother has no right to decide that her child should die as the life of the child is equally as important as the mother.
You have no clue who I am, you make assumptions, you make claims you have no means to support. There are many who have argued against abortion and have walked in every shoe you would claim. The immature argument of "you just don't understand" doesn't validate your claim.
considering that the majority of abortions are done out of convenience, I could say "Don't want the responsibility of a child, don't take the risk of sex". You don't get to act irresponsible and then kill someone because it is an inconvenience. That is the sign of someone suffering from mental illness.
child birth can be life threatening, fact. a woman get the choice to engage in it or not. saying yes to sex is not saying yes to pregnancy and parenthood. a woman does have the right to control her own reproductions however she likes.
If the shoes fits, wear it. you have a perspective and post about it. do I know you? no just as you don't know women personally who have an unwanted pregnancy to make a judgment on them. you disprove your own statement with your assumptions on abortion and a woman being less important than a fetus. it isn't maturity it is empathy.
again not your business why women get abortions. yes, women can act irresponsible, they are human. abortion is taking responsibility.
you can put any value on the life of your pregnancy you want if you are a woman. I support your choice.
Again, like many have done in the past, you put a value on life... just like some whites did with blacks, men did with women, nobles did with subjects... again... your argument is no different, you are no different than they are in your justification of one life being more valid than the other. /shrug
again not your business why women get abortions. yes, women can act irresponsible, they are human. abortion is taking responsibility.
Some men used to say that it is no business of anyones if they beat their wives, they owned them. They claimed they could even kill them if they wanted and in fact, in some tribal cultures (yamomamo indians) women are lesser than men, can be traded, raped and mutilated as men saw fit, you know... because men were more important than women. In fact, Islam has a whole slew of versus on the matter of such valuing of life.
So again, your argument is not new. It is quite old to be honest.
Basically, here is the argument: Since, by causing an embryo to exist, you created a need where there was no need before. Specifically, before coming into existence, the embryo had no needs; however, now, as a result of coming into existence, it needs to use your body to survive (and for nourishment). Thus, you should be forced to take responsibility for your actions by helping the embryo out--specifically by letting this embryo continue to use your body in order to survive and to acquire nourishment.
How exactly would you respond to this pro-life argument? Basically, while I myself previously looked at both abortion and child support from the perspective of tort law (indeed, I still consider child support to be government-sanctioned swindling if there was a prior agreement *not* to seek child support), I have to admit that that I didn't place as much emphasis on the *need* aspect of the equation before.
Anyway, any thoughts on this?
No, that's not exactly true. They survive in Petri dishes as well. They're frozen and then destroyed if not used.
Again, like many have done in the past, you put a value on life... just like some whites did with blacks, men did with women, nobles did with subjects... again... your argument is no different, you are no different than they are in your justification of one life being more valid than the other. /shrug
don't fool yourself you put value on life as well.
I don't think you know what body autonomy means. It means that an individual has the legal right to their own body and to make medical decisions in their own interest. How does that mean you would kill diabled people? If anything the support of the right to body autonomy would prevent that.
Just doing 2 of your paragraphs, the body killed isn't the mother, it is her child. The child has a separate complete human genome from the time of conception. That which is aborted, isn't a chicken, or a donkey, or a whale, it is a human. BTW try stepping on an endangered species egg, and discover life can indeed be protected prior to birth, just not human life in the United States at this time.
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And a fetus is not a separate human being. If you took it out of the womans body, aka actually separated it, it would not continue to develop into a human being.
The state of being unborn, is a natural human condition which we all experience. Killing another without due process is a denial of the primary liberty all humans should enjoy.
It is likely you and others who read this will be unable to accept an unborn human as being just as important as any other human. This is due to years of dogma. It is unfortunate and sad.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The above is the preamble to our Constitution, note it seeks to secure the blessings of liberty (our courts have always held the most important liberty is the right to live which cannot be taken without due process) to ourselves and our posterity. Note posterity is generations as yet unborn (aka unborn).
Our premise for the Constitution is to secure liberty to all living and as yet unborn humans. Abortion takes away this liberty right to a class of humans. Thus undoing the purpose of our Constitution. Ability to do this by a court allows any liberty or right to be edited out. Is this really a judicial power?
Some men used to say that it is no business of anyones if they beat their wives, they owned them. They claimed they could even kill them if they wanted and in fact, in some tribal cultures (yamomamo indians) women are lesser than men, can be traded, raped and mutilated as men saw fit, you know... because men were more important than women. In fact, Islam has a whole slew of versus on the matter of such valuing of life.
So again, your argument is not new. It is quite old to be honest.
can't you stay on topic? a pregnancy can not be compared to being an abused wife or woman being thought of as lessor in cultures.
you support forcing a women to remain pregnant against her will. go figure.
Anybody who wants zero restrictions on third trimester abortions is an extremist, and you can't reason with extremists.
You've made your stance that it's not a baby until the umbilical cord is cut. You're not much different than those who say it's a human at conception.
There is no point in us debating.
I'll save my time for moderate people.
I think in that statement you hit that proverbial nail on the head. In most cases there is no middle ground.
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