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Old 03-06-2017, 08:36 PM
 
47,070 posts, read 26,188,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc View Post
If less people want to buy health insurance, then less people will have it. Who cares. Nobody gets hysterical when Ferrari sales are down.
Nope. I refuse to believe anyone can be that dense.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:40 PM
 
32,238 posts, read 15,213,100 times
Reputation: 13822
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc View Post
If less people want to buy health insurance, then less people will have it. Who cares. Nobody gets hysterical when Ferrari sales are down.
You should care because you pay for those who don't have insurance. How do you think their cost is covered.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Elgin, Illinois
1,200 posts, read 1,610,936 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I don't think this is Trump's plan.
But he praised this new plan on his twitter.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:51 PM
 
21,992 posts, read 15,785,316 times
Reputation: 12954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
But he praised this new plan on his twitter.
Did he? Trump praised it? That's awesome, which part does he like best I wonder, the part where health insurance CEOs get a tax break? It's so swampy!
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:02 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 3,134,638 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Nope. I refuse to believe anyone can be that dense.
Apparently he's not an exception and that's why we got a buffoon in the White House now...
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,666 posts, read 26,480,799 times
Reputation: 12688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Many more people need healthcare than Ferraris. And those people who believe they don't need healthcare always need it eventually. Case in point: I have two coworkers, age 25 and 21. They believed they were healthy, fine, and everything was good. And it was, until my 21 year old coworker had a gall bladder attack and had to get it removed. $7,000 later, she has bad credit and few, if any, of the doctors have gotten paid for her emergency surgery. The 25 year old was healthy until she developed an abscessed tooth and terrible infection in her mouth from neglecting dental care that she couldn't afford. If it weren't our local dental school and a $2000 emergency loan from her father (who barely had the money himself) along with a big shot in the butt from the local Redi-Clinic, she would also be in the hospital.


You have explained the problem well enough and I agree that even the young and healthy should have health and dental insurance.


Of course the plans must have low enough deductibles, co-pays and premiums that they will actually be usable.


In the past, employers provided high quality (typically BC/BS) health insurance and dental plans along with fully funded pension plans.


The system worked well when unions still dominated industry and looked out for workers.


This has all changed.


Free trade with third world hell holes has completely de-fanged unions to the point that they don't dare call for a strike because industry can always move to China, Mexico or some other low-wage, low-tax deregulated business nirvana.


The Democrats who used to be pro-worker are now just as bought and paid-for as Republicans, so while unions still throw money at Democrat candidates, all they get in return is a few public works programs and the exact same free trade deals Republicans are pushing.


It works fine for the 0.1% who finance political campaigns and public sector unions that can't have their jobs outsourced, but everyone else gets screwed.


The option of sending jobs out of the country has to be taken off the table PERIOD!


The next problem is the growing oversupply of labor in America.


Even while productivity has continued on the same linear track since the end of WWII, wages have remained flat since the 1970s because, union or not, employers simply have all the leverage.


For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center


Had wages kept up with productivity, the prevailing average hourly wage would be close to $30/hour instead of $20.41.


Until we once again get to a place where employers must compete for workers, the 0.1% who have shoved free trade, effectively open borders and guest workers down our throats will continue to collect the 50% of our wages they used to have to pay workers.


When the day comes that employers no longer have the upper hand, we will once gain receive the benefits we took for granted in decades past.


Nothing else will work.
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:27 PM
 
800 posts, read 510,709 times
Reputation: 700
Insurance itself makes health care more expensive. I'm not one to say what the free market can and can't sell, thanks to Obamacare especially, theres buyers so there will be sellers. But healthcare would have ended up much cheaper if society just skipped insurance and paid out of their pocket like we do with other purchases. I do not consider it a very noble industry.
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:52 PM
 
2,333 posts, read 1,497,966 times
Reputation: 922
Ok, I'll bite. There are lots of reasons why you should care. TL;DR: You're paying for that person without realizing it. In GOP speak: You're giving a stranger a handout so they can save a buck (with a twist - they might even make more money than you!).

1. When that uninsured person gets into an accident, the paramedics will not leave them there to die. The hospital will not lock its doors. That person will get care, perhaps even days of hospitalization, and be served with a huge bill. Needless to say, this uninsured person trying to save a buck from not paying premiums probably also can't afford to pay a $XXX,XXX+ bill within 30-days. That means the hospital doesn't get paid for the service, which means they have to pass that cost to their other customers (aka you). This is one reason why medical costs, and thus insurance costs, are so high in this country.
2. Uninsured people love waiting until the last minute of any condition and hitting up the ER because they know, per the above, they won't get denied coverage. What happens when a bunch of uninsured people use the ER instead of going to the hundreds of other doctors in the hospital? When you get into an accident, you now have to wait in a long ass line of uninsured people at the ER. So not only do you pay more because of them, you get worse care.
3. Insurance costs are calculated by risk (among other things) within a market. If all the healthy people thinking they don't need health insurance don't buy it, that means the health insurer gets stuck with a bunch of unhealthy, costly customers only. If you're a company and most of your customers cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, what do you think you need to charge each one in order for you to be profitable? Think about it. "Who cares, those sick people deserve it," you say? Unfortunately, if you live in their market, you're stuck with the same crappy deal they are. The only thing that will bring that cost down for YOU is if more healthy people are covered by your insurance plan.

Edit: If you take away the requirement that insurers have to cover pre-existing conditions, then you at least don't have to worry about #3 above. Just don't ever get sick (anyone you love or care about either).

Last edited by BicoastalAnn; 03-06-2017 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:03 PM
 
Location: NYC
3,046 posts, read 2,392,773 times
Reputation: 2160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc View Post
Obamacare makes people buy insurance when they don't even want to.
it's posts like this why we ended up electing a dummy for a president.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
22,026 posts, read 25,384,711 times
Reputation: 19225
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc View Post
If less people want to buy health insurance, then less people will have it. Who cares. Nobody gets hysterical when Ferrari sales are down.
Because whether they have it or not, we still pay for it. We either pay in higher taxes or we pay in higher healthcare costs. That's not true of Ferraris. People who pay for Ferraris don't have part of the cost going to pay for non-paying people who show up at the dealership and hang around until a free Ferrari is given to them.
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