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This thread got pretty long for being up only 12 or so hours!
Anyway, first to some themes lots of people talk of on here.
First, about “Snowflake”, the term itself. I do not see it as meaning strictly “liberal”, even though that’s what AnywhereElse said in Post 28. I see (and meant) “snowflake” to be independent of ideology – namely a personality, disposition, temperament, etc.; especially when liberals increasingly used the same term to describe conservatives who react confrontationally, if not angrily, at what liberals have to say. That’s why I put “snowflakes” in the thread title. So while Anywhere else is correct in saying the epithet is usually fired at liberals, it’s also true that it’s increasingly used against conservatives as well.
Also, while it’s inevitable the topic would segway sharply into politics and related issues (indeed, this is the subforum for it!), I also stated the issue goes beyond political discussions, even if it definitely is relevant to such discussions. A lot of people use disparaging remarks in the OP in ‘everyday’ matters just as readily as in politics. So while I’m all for focusing on the politics and relations between different ideological camps, it’s also applicable to any other topic you can think of – and even topic-less content.
As for Milo, I don’t watch him much, so that’s for people more familiar with him than I am to discuss. However, I have seen Bill Maher in meaningful detail, and I can tell you that – a liberal, progressive, leftist, etc. myself – I am appalled at his contribution to the public discourse due to his vile putdown of those who disagree with him (broad generalizations, character assassination). I refuse to click on any YouTube video of his because I don’t want to contribute to his kind of discourse. If Milo is even half as cutting and degrading as Maher, then he is another one I’m glad I stay away from.
Don’t get the wrong idea. I’m all for political comedy, exposing the absurdities of certain positions, particularly when comemdians use a “reducio ad absurdum” to expose politiicans and other public figures who need calling out (this is actually a softening of my previous stance of political comedy as of the past two or so years, believe it or not). Yet, there’s still a big difference between that and outright mean-spirited personalized degradation. Physical appearances and ad hominem names (“big orange”, “old hag”, etc.) are just, way, WAY beyond the pale of respectable discourse.
Last but certainly not least is the word “offense” itself. I used to think it obvious what it means, but even this one’s now degraded into a verbal weapon – a distortion of the actual spirit of the term. Put simply, there’s a HUGE difference between an actually offensive comment and a merely uncomfortable or controversial one.
Controversial statements are simply expressions of views that are unpopular or uncomfortable to hear, but cannot in any way be reasonably be seen as a personalized insult, belittlement, or degradation of the people who hold those views.
Offense necessarily includes a statement whose tone and/or content the average person is likely to see as hurtul, harmful, or demeaning to the dignity of others – especially if said with intent to do so, or with clear willful indifference (practically any example of an ad hominem qualifies, but Style Over Substance also qualifies, as does any other aesthetic-based argument for that matter. The list is potentially endless). This conflating of “offense” and “controversial” only breeds distrust of “the other”, making any helpful exchange of view far more difficult – and I’d say outright toxic for democracy, republics, or whatever you care to call our system of government.
I think I want to lick your mind. This post is awesome.
Seriously, you never heard of the casting couch or locker room talk? How about the Jay Z's music lyrics (ex below) who by the way, gave a concert (singing this trash) for Hillary election campaign. You don't think these lyrics are disgusting and it makes you and leftist hypocrites?????
Seriously, you never heard of the casting couch or locker room talk? How about the Jay Z's music lyrics (ex below) who by the way, gave a concert (singing this trash) for Hillary election campaign. You don't think these lyrics are disgusting and it makes you and leftist hypocrites?????
Big Pumpkin - Jay Z
You know I thug 'em, f*ck 'em, love 'em, leave 'em
‘Cause I don't f*cking need 'em
Take 'em out the hood, keep 'em looking good
But I don't f*cking feed 'em
First time they fuss I'm breezin'
Talking 'bout, "What's the reasons?"
I'm a pimp in every sense of the word
B*tch, better trust and believe 'em
In the cut where I keep 'em
'Til I need a nut, 'til I need to beat the guts
Then it's "beep beep" and I'm pickin' them up
Let 'em play with the d*ck in the truck
Many chicks wanna put J*gga's fists in cuffs
Divorce him and split his bucks
Just because you got good head
I'ma break bread, so you can be livin' it up
Sh*t, I part with nothing, y'all be fronting
Me give my heart to a woman?
Not for nothing, never happen; I'll be forever mackin'
Heart cold as assassins, I got no passion, I got no patience
And I hate waitin'; ho, get your ass in and let's ride!
I'll worry about Jay Z's words when Jay Z runs for President.
I'll worry about Jay Z's words when Jay Z runs for President.
Obviously Hillary didn't have a problem with his lyrics about disrespecting and pimping women either. All she cared about is trying to get the young who listen to those lyrics to vote for her.
Oh and she carries hot sauce with her every where she goes LOLOL (Geesh, talk about pandering)
Do I really need to point out that the words in bold describe to a T the current occupant of the White House? I really didn't want to get into that aspect of the discussion, as I honestly believe that there are too many people on both sides of the aisle who engage in this kind of behavior, but I really can't ignore this comment.
Trump's opinions, as he himself has expressed them, have been all over the map. He seems to have no core beliefs, save for those that will garner the most adulation from the largest number of people. He now holds the most powerful office on the planet, yet continues to engage in Twitter wars with other celebrities, private citizens, and members of his own party. This is not only unbecoming, it seems to me to be a serious waste of time and mental energy for someone who has far more serious matters to deal with than what's going on with "Celebrity Apprentice." It is astonishing to me that anyone who voted for Trump could accuse other people of being too thin-skinned.
Not true. Trump knows exactly what he's doing. He's doing what he said he would do.
Entitled, in a way, but in a real sense he's a determined hard worker. Do his kids come across as entitled? I don't think so.
Snowflakes, another description of the college student type:
“Safe space culture weakens the minds and emotional fortitude of the young. The entire point of higher education is learning, growing and confronting challenging ideas,” he added. “If a student is not equipped for debate and discussion, they may want to apply to a nearby McDonalds. School isn’t for them.”
But Jay-Z's lyrics of pimping and disrespecting women are fine by you? Hillary didn't have a problem with the lyrics either. All she cared about is trying to get the young who listen to those lyrics to vote for her.
I didn't say that, did I?
I would point out to you that Scott Baio, a Trump supporter, has said some fairly nasty things, too.
Honestly, however, I am not interested in getting into a discussion about whose celebrity supporters are worse. I don't pay much attention to most celebrities, really don't care, and have no idea who many of them even are, so that's going to be my last foray down that road.
This thread got pretty long for being up only 12 or so hours!
Anyway, first to some themes lots of people talk of on here.
First, about “Snowflake”, the term itself. I do not see it as meaning strictly “liberal”, even though that’s what AnywhereElse said in Post 28. I see (and meant) “snowflake” to be independent of ideology – namely a personality, disposition, temperament, etc.; especially when liberals increasingly used the same term to describe conservatives who react confrontationally, if not angrily, at what liberals have to say. That’s why I put “snowflakes” in the thread title. So while AnywhereElse is correct in saying the epithet is usually fired at liberals, it’s also true that it’s increasingly used against conservatives as well.
Also, while it’s inevitable the topic would segway sharply into politics and related issues (indeed, this is the subforum for it!), I also stated the issue goes beyond political discussions, even if it definitely is relevant to such discussions. A lot of people use disparaging remarks in the OP in ‘everyday’ matters just as readily as in politics. So while I’m all for focusing on the politics and relations between different ideological camps, it’s also applicable to any other topic you can think of – and even topic-less content.
As for Milo, I don’t watch him much, so that’s for people more familiar with him than I am to discuss. However, I have seen Bill Maher in meaningful detail, and I can tell you that – a liberal, progressive, leftist, etc. myself – I am appalled at his contribution to the public discourse due to his vile putdown of those who disagree with him (broad generalizations, character assassination). I refuse to click on any YouTube video of his because I don’t want to contribute to his kind of discourse. If Milo is even half as cutting and degrading as Maher, then he is another one I’m glad I stay away from.
Don’t get the wrong idea. I’m all for political comedy, exposing the absurdities of certain positions, particularly when comemdians use a “reducio ad absurdum” to expose politiicans and other public figures who need calling out (this is actually a softening of my previous stance of political comedy as of the past two or so years, believe it or not). Yet, there’s still a big difference between that and outright mean-spirited personalized degradation. Physical appearances and ad hominem names (“big orange”, “old hag”, etc.) are just, way, WAY beyond the pale of respectable discourse.
Last but certainly not least is the word “offense” itself. I used to think it obvious what it means, but even this one’s now degraded into a verbal weapon – a distortion of the actual spirit of the term. Put simply, there’s a HUGE difference between an actually offensive comment and a merely uncomfortable or controversial one.
Controversial statements are simply expressions of views that are unpopular or uncomfortable to hear, but cannot in any way be reasonably be seen as a personalized insult, belittlement, or degradation of the people who hold those views.
Offense necessarily includes a statement whose tone and/or content the average person is likely to see as hurtul, harmful, or demeaning to the dignity of others – especially if said with intent to do so, or with clear willful indifference (practically any example of an ad hominem qualifies, but Style Over Substance also qualifies, as does any other aesthetic-based argument for that matter. The list is potentially endless). This conflating of “offense” and “controversial” only breeds distrust of “the other”, making any helpful exchange of view far more difficult – and I’d say outright toxic for democracy, republics, or whatever you care to call our system of government.
I would point out to you that Scott Baio, a Trump supporter, has said some fairly nasty things, too.
Honestly, however, I am not interested in getting into a discussion about whose celebrity supporters are worse. I don't pay much attention to most celebrities, really don't care, and have no idea who many of them even are, so that's going to be my last foray down that road.
Well then stop acting holier than though. Ok so you think it's ok to sing lyrics about disrespecting and pimping women to the young because they are liberal.
Just because he's not running for president doesn't make it ok or right. Yet Hillary even had him give a concert to try to get votes. This is the kind of music the young listen to and because he showed support for Hillary your willing to overlook it? Wow!
The left keeps acting like they have moral authority and they are very far from living morally. Hypocrites
I would point out to you that Scott Baio, a Trump supporter, has said some fairly nasty things, too.
Honestly, however, I am not interested in getting into a discussion about whose celebrity supporters are worse. I don't pay much attention to most celebrities, really don't care, and have no idea who many of them even are, so that's going to be my last foray down that road.
This is the kind of person who gave a concert for Hillary's campaign
Big Pumpkin - Jay Z
You know I thug 'em, f*ck 'em, love 'em, leave 'em
‘Cause I don't f*cking need 'em
Take 'em out the hood, keep 'em looking good
But I don't f*cking feed 'em
First time they fuss I'm breezin'
Talking 'bout, "What's the reasons?"
I'm a pimp in every sense of the word
B*tch, better trust and believe 'em
In the cut where I keep 'em
'Til I need a nut, 'til I need to beat the guts
Then it's "beep beep" and I'm pickin' them up
Let 'em play with the d*ck in the truck
Many chicks wanna put J*gga's fists in cuffs
Divorce him and split his bucks
Just because you got good head
I'ma break bread, so you can be livin' it up
Sh*t, I part with nothing, y'all be fronting
Me give my heart to a woman?
Not for nothing, never happen; I'll be forever mackin'
Heart cold as assassins, I got no passion, I got no patience
And I hate waitin'; ho, get your ass in and let's ride!
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