Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-11-2017, 01:15 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,638,052 times
Reputation: 7292

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
It worked just fine before 1962. How many have died because a drug was never brought to market?

How many Americans died when beta blockers were blocked by the FDA in the sixties?

How many Americans died when HIV drugs were blocked in the eighties?

The Kefauver-Harris Amendment has killed many more than it has saved.

How many die today because they cannot afford their prescriptions?

FREE TO CHOOSE 7: "Who Protects the Consumer?" (Milton Friedman)
rubbish, you are excluding the millions saved from avoiding taking drugs that would kill them, or do nothing to help them.

the efficacy matters and safety matters too. There is a reason we crash test cars, water heaters, TV's too.


What if TV's without leaded glass were sold for the last 50 years....

What if anyone could make a car and "let" the market decide.

what if i could give you a drug that sent you wild and you killed people who would not have taken the drug.


If you got your way within no time at all you would be first in line crying about you were cheated...

libertarianism is simply the acceptable face of anarchy. I wish you guys really could get a country going , just as long as you did not have access to anything that might hurt neighboring nations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-11-2017, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
It worked just fine before 1962. How many have died because a drug was never brought to market?

How many Americans died when beta blockers were blocked by the FDA in the sixties?

How many Americans died when HIV drugs were blocked in the eighties?

The Kefauver-Harris Amendment has killed many more than it has saved.

How many die today because they cannot afford their prescriptions?

FREE TO CHOOSE 7: "Who Protects the Consumer?" (Milton Friedman)
Milton Friedman knew nothing about health care.

You know what brought about Kefauver-Harris? The Thalidomide tragedy in Europe. That crap was sold OTC in Germany. Here's the result: https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/whatwed...gsfor100years/

AZT, which the AIDS activists pressured the FDA to approve, was not the great hope some thought it would be.
The rise and fall of AZT: It was the drug that had to work. It brought hope to people with HIV and Aids, and millions for the company that developed it. It had to work. There was nothing else. But for many who used AZT - it didn't | The Independent
AIDS Drug AZT: How It Got Approved 30 Years Ago | Time.com

There are programs to help people who can't afford their prescriptions. I have no particular "love lost" for the drug companies, but you can't blame all the problems with prescription drugs on drug safety.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 01:59 PM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,872,015 times
Reputation: 2144
Nobody wants a medical conscription.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 02:16 PM
 
8,156 posts, read 3,678,584 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post


Of course I considered the cost of what we pay for health care. That was the whole point of the comparison. The only real people benefiting from single payer healthcare are the 10% that don't get their insurance from the government or their employers. You might want to actually read what I wrote in its entirety (which includes multiple posts) before replying.

Admittedly, in reading through a few more posts on this thread, it's amazing to me how much BS is spewed on the Internet. There are so many disingenous statements, I don't even know where to start. I did find the comment regarding life expectancy to be the biggest joke, since organizations like the World Health Organization seem to think its okay to include car fatalities and homicides to judge the success of medical care and its relation to life expectancy.

There is no sense in regurgitating all the facts that have put these misnomers to bed. People that believe in single payer healthcare are just like a religious cult. There's nothing you can say to them to change their minds so it's not worth arguing about. They are simply a group of close minded, intellectually rigid people.

Ok, let's consider infant mortality then. So where do we, the nation with highest healthcare spending per capita, stand in that table? here is a hint, go past Cuba, and keep going a bit longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mortality_rate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
Ok, let's consider infant mortality then. So where do we, the nation with highest healthcare spending per capita, stand in that table? here is a hint, go past Cuba, and keep going a bit longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mortality_rate
This is one area where I part company big-time with critics of our system. It is very well known, among people who do know, that IM is computed differently by different countries. G*d knows what Cuba's definition of a "live birth" is. Apples to oranges.
Influence of definition based versus pragmatic birth registration on international comparisons of perinatal and infant mortality: population based retrospective study | The BMJ

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-11-2017 at 03:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
rubbish, you are excluding the millions saved from avoiding taking drugs that would kill them, or do nothing to help them.

the efficacy matters and safety matters too. There is a reason we crash test cars, water heaters, TV's too.


What if TV's without leaded glass were sold for the last 50 years....

What if anyone could make a car and "let" the market decide.

what if i could give you a drug that sent you wild and you killed people who would not have taken the drug.


If you got your way within no time at all you would be first in line crying about you were cheated...

libertarianism is simply the acceptable face of anarchy. I wish you guys really could get a country going , just as long as you did not have access to anything that might hurt neighboring nations.

What great problems occurred between 1940 and 1962?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Milton Friedman knew nothing about health care.

You know what brought about Kefauver-Harris? The Thalidomide tragedy in Europe. That crap was sold OTC in Germany. Here's the result: https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/whatwed...gsfor100years/

AZT, which the AIDS activists pressured the FDA to approve, was not the great hope some thought it would be.
The rise and fall of AZT: It was the drug that had to work. It brought hope to people with HIV and Aids, and millions for the company that developed it. It had to work. There was nothing else. But for many who used AZT - it didn't | The Independent
AIDS Drug AZT: How It Got Approved 30 Years Ago | Time.com

There are programs to help people who can't afford their prescriptions. I have no particular "love lost" for the drug companies, but you can't blame all the problems with prescription drugs on drug safety.
Thalidomide was a safety problem, not an efficacy problem. Clue: The tragedy happened in Europe, not America, before we had the Kefauver-Harris amendment.

AZT was all they had. As your link states--there was nothing else. Of course that was denied by the FDA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Thalidomide was a safety problem, not an efficacy problem. Clue: The tragedy happened in Europe, not America, before we had the Kefauver-Harris amendment.

AZT was all they had. As your link states--there was nothing else. Of course that was denied by the FDA.
Yes, I know that (about Thalidomide). Most people who rage on about the FDA bring up Thalidomide, but it was never approved in the US. Didn't I already say that? Didn't I show some pictures of German "Thalidomide babies"? Kefauver was introduced to avoid another such problem.

The FDA did not deny AZT. AZT was approved in 1987. Good Grief, the link I posted says "AIDS Drug AZT: How It Got Approved 30 Years Ago | Time.com"
https://www.fda.gov/forpatients/illn.../ucm151074.htm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Yes, I know that (about Thalidomide). Most people who rage on about the FDA bring up Thalidomide, but it was never approved in the US. Didn't I already say that? Didn't I show some pictures of German "Thalidomide babies"? Kefauver was introduced to avoid another such problem.

The FDA did not deny AZT. AZT was approved in 1987. Good Grief, the link I posted says "AIDS Drug AZT: How It Got Approved 30 Years Ago | Time.com"
https://www.fda.gov/forpatients/illn.../ucm151074.htm
Yes....finally it was approved as beta blockers were in the 1960's after tens of thiousand's of American deaths.

Thalidomide was a safety concern, not an efficacy concern. The Kefauver_Harris Amendment has killed many more than it has saved and pushed prescription drug prices to exorbitant levels.

They meant well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2017, 05:30 PM
 
8,893 posts, read 5,373,289 times
Reputation: 5697
I got the bill recently for my DD's "free" physical exam. Around $60.

Won't exactly break the bank, but why must this program continue to make claims that are false? Well, tomorrow I must schedule my DS for his free physical exam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:07 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top