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This is only anecdotal but three years ago my doctor in the US recommended a tonsillectomy. I did some research and learned about a new technique that could cut recovery time from several weeks to several days. There were only a couple of doctors in the US doing the procedure but around ten in Canada. I was going to pay for it out of pocket and would have to travel anyway so I called a couple of the Canadian doctors. What I was told is that they would not work on Americans because their malpractice insurance wouldn't cover them. I did not ask if it was only Americans or all foreigners and I didn't call all the doctors, just two in Toronto.
Another:
Jay Chappie, American for 1/2 a century from birth, traveled half way around the world.
Written Feb 16, 2016
Here's what little I do know on that bit of the health care debate.
I knew a woman about 20 years ago, maybe a bit more, they were very well off. She had gone to Canada to get Lasik. She said the doctor who was teaching everyone else was there, so why not go to the best. And at the time it was so much less expensive for the procedure there, the difference covered her first class airfare.
People from Canada don't come to the US for life saving health care because there is a wait list. They come for non-life threatening care that has a waiting list, and they have the money not to wait. Or they come for the best doctor, and they have the money to do it.
People from the US go elsewhere, either for the best doctor, or for a much less expensive surgery or spa-like care.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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It would have been best to have started with single payer before the private insurance industry become profitable. To go from private to public insurance would now put many thousands of people working in insurance out of work. I really think the best strategy now would be to expand Medicaid so 100% of people are insured.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
It would have been best to have started with single payer before the private insurance industry become profitable. To go from private to public insurance would now put many thousands of people working in insurance out of work. I really think the best strategy now would be to expand Medicaid so 100% of people are insured.
We would have had it had FDR not died early in his 4th term. But of course with him gone, we were scared of "communism" with the Cold War and all.....
A single pay systems sounds great but the reality is that in some cases you don't receive good health care. A lot of Canadians have crossed over into our country to receive health care. Try waiting for an oncologist to become available in two months when you have a cancer diagnosis. Single pay systems are not perfect either.
No system is perfect but I find it amusing that some Americans always use lengthy wait times and large number of Canadians crossing the border for Healthcare as some some of strong argument against our system. The truth is large number don't. Canada has 35 million people, if a large number crossed over it would be making a heckuva lot more news than what is it a few thousand - that's peanuts. Most of us don't cross over the border for H.C because there is a very simple explanation - not necessary!
Every system has its horror stories. I can tell you by my own experiences with family friends that lengthy wait times, especially for critical care is not the norm. My father beat cancer and that is largely due to quick surgery after detection to quick oncological treatment thereafter. From diagnosis to in the operating room having his bladder, prostate and surrounding lymph nodes removed due to stage IV metastatic cancer was about a week. So prioritization is happening for those who need critical care the most.
Sure this is one story but if lengthy wait times were the norm for most of us and it was impacting the lives of our loved one's to a large degree, I can assure you we'd be holding our government to account and that would be remedied pretty quickly!
Take into account stress or should I say lack thereof with our system. I don't have to worry about losing care if I lose my job. I don't have to deal with co-pays or deductibles or picking a plan or worrying about if I can afford my plan that may change in cost. Sure I pay federal taxes out of my pay but its geared to my income. The more you make, the more you pay in federal taxes, the less you make the less you pay so the burden isn't an unknown delta that is highly variable. Perhaps this is in part why Canadians live on average two years longer than Americans.
One final point, Canadians pay 1 dollar for every 2 dollars you guys pay. Any country has to balance the budget and if Canadians paid double what we currently do for H.C there would be opportunity costs associated with in other areas. So if waiting a bit longer to get a hemorrhoid operated on means we have a lower debt to GDP ratio that is manageable long term and that we are actually funding infrastructure projects, public education etc, it isn't necessary the worst thing in the world. The U.S has one of the Highest debt to GDP ratios if not the highest in the western world - one has to consider that that may be an untenable situation long term.
Maybe the conversation goes ugly because people like you immediately make it personal by calling people who don't agree with you stupid. Since I don't support universal care, I'm one of the people you think is stupid. This does not compel me to want to carry on a discussion or even try to learn anything from you. So let me know how well verbal abuse works for you in winning over hearts and minds.
FWIW, I wasn't directing the comment about stupid people at you, personally, however, I am sorry. I should not have phrased it that way, and I apologize. But it does seem a bit absurd for people who have never lived in a country with universal health care to claim that they know more about it than people who have or do.
Last edited by Catgirl64; 03-26-2017 at 01:14 PM..
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Originally Posted by Fleet
A ridiculous claim. Try again.
No, there is indirect truth to it. They don't want them to have healthcare since they wouldn't be able to afford it without subsidy, the poor for lack of money, and the elderly for surplus of risk making premiums out of reach for them.
USA Is a Capitalist country. You either are onboard or not. Money talks, BS whining walks. We arent socilaists, full blown etc or a democracy. Constitutional Republic thats runs on making money. So, we wont do single layef, no money in it
But last I checked, UK and Canada are capitalist countries too, and pretty good ones, that are still able to do single payer, do it cheaply and provide it well, with better outcomes and less cost than the US. Same with France and Sweden and Japan and Germany (where tons of cars and electronics come from, hence the US trade deficit), Netherlands, even China (now with universal health care), Taiwan and Korea, Switzerland (world's most competitive capitalist country). All capitalist, all with universal health care. It's not that the USA is capitalist, it's that it has a junk, rentier, corrupt and crony capitalist style of capitalism full of parasites (health insurance companies) and waste that doesn't work well for anyone.
But last I checked, UK and Canada are capitalist countries too, and pretty good ones, that are still able to do single payer, do it cheaply and provide it well, with better outcomes and less cost than the US. Same with France and Sweden and Japan and Germany (where tons of cars and electronics come from, hence the US trade deficit), Netherlands, even China (now with universal health care), Taiwan and Korea, Switzerland (world's most competitive capitalist country). All capitalist, all with universal health care. It's not that the USA is capitalist, it's that it has a junk, rentier, corrupt and crony capitalist style of capitalism full of parasites (health insurance companies) and waste that doesn't work well for anyone.
Part of the problem is the US has a very progressive tax structure which severely limits the size of the tax base and therefore tax revenue, while other countries do not.
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