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Old 04-01-2017, 03:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,613,748 times
Reputation: 15007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Ah, the taxes is theft crowd.
Nice try, but you missed the point by a country mile.

I didn't say "taxes are theft". Transferring money from Group A to pay it to Group B, using the power of govt to take it from Group A, is theft, if the govt doesn't have the authority to pay it to Group B. (BTW, it's also flatly unconstitutional, not that the transferers care.)

 
Old 04-01-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,419,987 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Because that's a regressive tax -- only taxes people who earn wages, not fat cats that earn their money from buying and selling assets.

Yes. But every other country with national health is far more regressive than the USA.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Nice try, but you missed the point by a country mile.

I didn't say "taxes are theft". Transferring money from Group A to pay it to Group B, using the power of govt to take it from Group A, is theft, if the govt doesn't have the authority to pay it to Group B. (BTW, it's also flatly unconstitutional, not that the transferers (sic) care.)
Sorry, Congress has a constitutional right to lay and collect taxes. It also has the right to spend. Hence, it taxes in some places and spends in others.

What you are trying to do is argue that redistribution is morally wrong. I think that letting poor people go hungry while the richest live in abundant splendor, is the moral outrage, when taxing the rich a little more solves many problems.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 03:57 PM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,081,326 times
Reputation: 17213
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Sorry, Congress has a constitutional right to lay and collect taxes. .
and the new admin has the right to tell the IRS do not enforce ACA mandates. The law was written with tremendous POTUS discretion. The admin can also vastly reduce insurance mandates under ACA.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
and the new admin has the right to tell the IRS do not enforce ACA mandates. The law was written with tremendous POTUS discretion. The admin can also vastly reduce insurance mandates under ACA.
Well, you can assert that, but it is questionable. The ACA law requires that the taxes be collected. Presidents cannot ignore the law.

Besides, if Trump doesn't collect the taxes and that undermines the ACA, the consequences are on Trump.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,419,987 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Well, you can assert that, but it is questionable. The ACA law requires that the taxes be collected. Presidents cannot ignore the law.

Besides, if Trump doesn't collect the taxes and that undermines the ACA, the consequences are on Trump.

Obama explicitly stated he was going to ignore immigration law and federal drug laws. What say you?
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:31 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
If subsidies come from taxpayers who didn't want the expensive Obamacare policies, but who must pay for the subsidies in their taxes on April 15 whether they want to or not.... that is theft, plain and simple. Perpetrated by the government against its own citizens.
The subsidies can also come from Federal deficit spending. As in Medicare. IMO to enough of an extent this will have to be part of any final national solution.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:34 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Why not just raise the Medicare portion of the payroll tax from 1.45% to 12% and lower the age of Medicare to 18?

Because liberals would never vote for that....
Lowering to age 50-55 is all that is needed. Hillary's plan. This essentially controls the adverse and excess HC risks with Obamacare plans. It offloads so much of the risk, that the Mandate may not be needed. Medicare is not necessary at such young an age of 18.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:39 PM
 
31,910 posts, read 26,989,302 times
Reputation: 24816
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Well, you can assert that, but it is questionable. The ACA law requires that the taxes be collected. Presidents cannot ignore the law.

Besides, if Trump doesn't collect the taxes and that undermines the ACA, the consequences are on Trump.


Actually if you recall Obama and the democrats stated the insurance mandate was *not* a tax when ACA was passed into law. Subsequent legal action and decision by the SCOTUS stated what everyone with an ounce of sense knew (likely including Obama et al), that the mandate was indeed a tax and thus that part of the law was constitutional. It was the other part of the ruling; that the IRS couldn't or lacked authority under the law as written to penalize and or otherwise go after those who didn't pay the mandate is where the trouble started.


If you had a refund due, the IRS could withdraw the mandated coverage amount from same; however if you didn't and or simply owned taxes then things became more complicated. In theory one could simply pay all other taxes owed minus the insurance mandate and dare the IRS to act.


As with any other large piece of legislation ACA was badly written in areas and wants tightening up. In other countries where you find true national health schemes the taxes that levied in support are clear, mandated and there are consequences and repercussions for non-compliance. Only thing stopping that from becoming part of the ACA is the abhorrence certain Americans feel towards taxes in general, and or being "forced" to pay for health insurance.


Seen in another light; nearly everyone who earns income pays payroll/SS taxes (subject to income limits), unless they are exempt due to certain exclusions (some educators, railroad workers, etc...). There is no ambiguity about it and the IRS will levy fines/take other legally sanctioned actions if one fails to pay.
 
Old 04-01-2017, 04:45 PM
 
31,910 posts, read 26,989,302 times
Reputation: 24816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The subsidies can also come from Federal deficit spending. As in Medicare. IMO to enough of an extent this will have to be part of any final national solution.


Medicare is funded by dedicated taxes (payroll and a few others) into that system. Not general revenue from the US treasury. If any funds do come from that latter it is because the federal government "borrowed" surplus funds from the SS/Medicare "trust fund", and those IOUs are now being redeemed.


Medicaid, the program for indigent, disabled and so forth *does* come from general federal revenue funding. Well rather it is a 50/50 split between the states and federal government. That was the point in how the thing was created in first place. To provide for those who for various reasons were not covered by Medicare.


Of the two Medicare is actually in far better fiscal shape than Medicaid. The latter is contributing to a large part of "deficit spending", as the program (including and especially disability coverage) has grown over the past several years.
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