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Old 04-03-2017, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,009,735 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
However wit tax reform and less regulation has motivated business to stay and expand!
That's merely conservative mythology. There is no evidence at all that lower taxes and less regulation are stimulative. We have Bush's tax cuts to prove the conservative fallacy. In all of Bush's 8 years, there was a total job gain of 56,000.

Cutting regulations just means that the damage done by corporate action, such as polluting water, is born by others and not the corporation that causes the damage. Cutting the auto CAFE standards just means we'll burn more gas.

Businesses expand when there is more demand for their products or services. Companies don't decide to expand or hire people they don't need, if they get a tax break but have no more demand. They'll just issue a dividend to their shareholders.

There is also little assurance that Trump's tax-reform will end up any better than Trump's health care reform.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,608 posts, read 56,706,478 times
Reputation: 23519
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
rather than argue with you i suggested you spend five minutes just learning something.
Admire your persistence. Unfortunately, the ignorant have elected the ignoramus - and facts don't matter. Only their "beliefs" and their "spin" on those facts. Until real world consequences come home to roost - and those same ignorant will find another to blame rather than face reality and truth.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,608 posts, read 56,706,478 times
Reputation: 23519
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Businesses expand when there is more demand for their products or services. Companies don't decide to expand or hire people they don't need, if they get a tax break but have no more demand. They'll just issue a dividend to their shareholders.
That's exactly, right. Same is true for the individual rich - they'll save the tax cut, not create jobs. But, again, you're talking to people who have "beliefs" - and will stubbornly defend those "beliefs" to the death - sorta' like DJT accusing Obama of spying on him, or Hillary's three million illegal votes, or inauguration crowd, or jobs he's "saved" that were "saved" long before he was nominated. The list goes is long. DJT (and his ignorant supporters) "believes" it to be true, therefore it is.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,009,735 times
Reputation: 5661
The facts speak for themselves, #45 and his team are varsity players in a major league game. They're inviting a trade war and are too inexperienced to realize that they're in over their heads. During the campaign, #45 made it seem that running a country was going to be so easy. Putting a 36 year old son-in-law in charge of nearly everything -- a son-in-law who has no real experience than inheriting daddy's money, should be frightening to everyone.

I am interested how the meeting with the Chinese ends up at the end of the week.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:42 PM
 
26,748 posts, read 15,301,549 times
Reputation: 14867
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
This should come as no surprise at all. Of course any risks to trade ties to the U.S. will force other countries to look elsewhere. What would you expect to happen?

Now the overall effect to the U.S. with Trump's vision of bringing the economy back to the states at the expense of foreign economic ties is the great unknown.
We have to do something - 41 years straight of trade deficits. We can't say gee we are getting the raw end of the stick, we better just take it and smile for another 41 years. Trump is just likely going about it the wrong way. He is too brash.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:43 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,247 posts, read 13,368,117 times
Reputation: 10290
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
dude, i was pretty polite, your argument is simplistic and patently wrong. You won't see why until you take a few minutes to understand exactly what comparative advantage actually means.

This has absolutely nothing to do with left or right and everything to do with understanding the discussion before jumping in and shouting.

rather than argue with you i suggested you spend five minutes just learning something.

comparative advantages and competitive advantages; they are NOT the same thing, and when you see the difference you begin to understand why your isolationist policy, trade barriers etc lead nations into long term decline.

like many people you are likely conflating your localized economy with the economy of a nation. You might well fare better in a trade war for a short time. But your children would need to learn how to thank their masters in dozens of languages because we would quickly become the world's female dog..

Doubt it?

do you?

try telling that to every nation in history that closed its doors or put up walls. Even with the massive scale of china they FAILED only because they believed the rest of the world did not matter. they were advanced far beyond us, but they lacked the competition that drives innovation.

i could explain this to you for days, but until you take the time to educate yourself you will continue to believe you are right.
As i said earlier, this is important and every student should learn it, just as every student should be taught much more about other finances too.

For some reason you seem to think that our trade imbalance is a result of trade agreements, and while that might well be true, the correlation is in no way proof. Perhaps the trade imbalance reflects our failure in the market. Have you actually considered that possibility? or are we the "perfect" competitor and all fault lies in the contracts drawn and signed?
Oh Lord. When I confront you with a FACT, the United States had a trade deficit of half trillion dollars last year, its not an opinion, its a FACT, all you can do is insult my intelligence and change the subject?

Please don't go around insulting and patronizing people because you disagree with them.

And I realize there are people in the USA and on City-Data who are doing well, want their cheap imports and really don't care what happens to Middle America. But even they must not be so blind to admit that over the long run, no good can come to a country who runs a huge balance of trade deficits year after year for decades. It is just one example of a terribly mismanaged Government.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,009,735 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
We have to do something - 41 years straight of trade deficits. We can't say gee we are getting the raw end of the stick, we better just take it and smile for another 41 years. Trump is just likely going about it the wrong way. He is too brash.
It's far more than just being brash. #45 doesn't know anything about foreign trade. (I know that this is a shock to most of you.) What do I mean? If you listen to the Tweeter-in-chief, one would come away thinking that Nafta benefited Mexico, not the U.S. In fact, Mexico drastically cut its tariffs on goods imported from the U.S., in return for much smaller cuts on the U.S. side.

The same lack of knowledge exists about China -- who Trump claims is manipulating its currency, which was true six years ago, but not now. Now, China is trying to push its currency higher.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:04 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,910,498 times
Reputation: 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That's merely conservative mythology. There is no evidence at all that lower taxes and less regulation are stimulative. We have Bush's tax cuts to prove the conservative fallacy. In all of Bush's 8 years, there was a total job gain of 56,000.

Cutting regulations just means that the damage done by corporate action, such as polluting water, is born by others and not the corporation that causes the damage. Cutting the auto CAFE standards just means we'll burn more gas.

Businesses expand when there is more demand for their products or services. Companies don't decide to expand or hire people they don't need, if they get a tax break but have no more demand. They'll just issue a dividend to their shareholders.

There is also little assurance that Trump's tax-reform will end up any better than Trump's health care reform.
Whatever your personal feeling are on this subject a business rich environment makes investment dollars to stay home.
The End result of the mid terms GW enjoyed a fast moving economy. However the House Marker collapsed because of Fanny mae and was protected by Waters, Dodd's and Franks to the bitter end. Acorn drop the standards of lending which ended on foreclosure.


Playing the EPA Card, yet anther BS Liberal trick to stop reasonable growth. Modern Manufacturing lessens the impact of making stuff. No matter how one slices their will be always a down side, but at a minimum impact.


Americans have demanded more practical cars even with lower fuel process. Forcing people to drive a Prius instead of a Truck will never do.


I think Liberals continue to fright, instead of offering a solution.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,721 posts, read 26,521,098 times
Reputation: 12727
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The facts speak for themselves, #45 and his team are varsity players in a major league game. They're inviting a trade war and are too inexperienced to realize that they're in over their heads. During the campaign, #45 made it seem that running a country was going to be so easy. Putting a 36 year old son-in-law in charge of nearly everything -- a son-in-law who has no real experience than inheriting daddy's money, should be frightening to everyone.

I am interested how the meeting with the Chinese ends up at the end of the week.



Robert Kennedy was 35 when his brother appointed him Attorney General of the United States.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:12 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,247 posts, read 13,368,117 times
Reputation: 10290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
It's far more than just being brash. #45 doesn't know anything about foreign trade. (I know that this is a shock to most of you.) What do I mean? If you listen to the Tweeter-in-chief, one would come away thinking that Nafta benefited Mexico, not the U.S. In fact, Mexico drastically cut its tariffs on goods imported from the U.S., in return for much smaller cuts on the U.S. side.

The same lack of knowledge exists about China -- who Trump claims is manipulating its currency, which was true six years ago, but not now. Now, China is trying to push its currency higher.
MTA, China devalued its currency just two years ago in 2015. It makes Chinese exports to the rest of the World cheaper while making foreign imports to China more expensive. A great way to help Chinese companies but not good for American.

The Obama administration did NOTHING about it. In fact, in Obama's defense, there really is nothing he could do about it under the "free trade" system that has been set up, if you take away negotiating tactics like threats of tariffs or quotas then you are literally reduced to complaining and begging the other country to please play nice.

It is sort of like a boxer going into the ring with both hands tied behind his back while his opponent hands are free.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/b...erns.html?_r=0 (NY Times)

China devalues yuan in shocking move - Aug. 11, 2015 (CNN)
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