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Old 05-07-2017, 08:13 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,290,640 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
True, in general.
I do know someone who died of HepC, because he could not afford the medicine that cures it. That was during ACA, so they've got their nerve, saying what they do about the republican plan.
"They".......this is a cop out. Many of us complaining about the Republican plan also complained about the ACA. "They" gives you the chance to avoid the issue while blaming some boogeyman.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:14 AM
 
882 posts, read 689,944 times
Reputation: 905
Oh my. It looks like all the scare tactics of the Left are back. The same scare tactics that caused the passage of a "S" sandwich called Obamacare or laughably...the "affordable" care act (if that's not an oxymoron, I don't know what is).

So let's start with the exaggerated claims about pre existing illnesses. If you were to listen to Democrats at the time, you would have been convinced that millions of people had pre existing illnesses. In effect though, it was roughly 1 1/2% of the country. Why is that? Because most people are covered by either a government plan or their employers plan, to the tune of 90% (and those plans accept people with pre-existing illnesses). That leaves only 10% of the country to fend for private insurance, or approximately 30 million people. And for those 30 million people, their health care premiums have doubled since 2014. So it's been less affordable for them.

Unfortunately, the Obama Administration threw out the rhetoric that one in every two Americans have pre existing illnesses amounting to approximately 129 million that would be denied coverage without health reform...Complete and utter BS! The actual plan is closer to 1.5 million or roughly 1 1/2% of the country. And in 2010, prior to Obamacare, a plan was put into place to remedy that called the PCIP (Pre Existing Conditions Inuance Plan), so why overhaul an entire system?. So did 1.5 million sign up for this? Hardly, try 114,959 in Feb of 2013. Which bring us to the next point.....are you going to force people to buy insurance (since over 1 million didn't in this case)? Apparently that the goal by making them pay a penalty if the don't. So let's make thing harder for those that don't have insurance (hey, there's a well thought out plan).

Of course the ultimate fallacy is that insurance equals health care. No, sorry, it does not. And if you can't afford the premiums or deductibles because gee...life gets in the way, somehow you can magically get health care, huh? Actually, you're pretty much in the same boat as those without because you're also waiting until you get extremely sick before going in (because you can't afford it).

The Harvard study that was listed earlier was long ago debunked as when you factor in a myriad of factors (i.e. smoking, alcohol consumption, obesity, etc.), you really can't isolate out insurance and show causation.

Add to this that there are still over 20 million people without insurance with Obamacare.

My fact checker rating of the comment....TRUE!

Please stop with the boring hyperbole.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:18 AM
 
18,983 posts, read 9,097,504 times
Reputation: 14688
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
True, in general.
I do know someone who died of HepC, because he could not afford the medicine that cures it. That was during ACA, so they've got their nerve, saying what they do about the republican plan.
That's criminal as well as unconscionable. No one should die of a curable disease because they can't afford their meds. You are making the case for universal healthcare. And I couldn't agree more.

How would the House bill change your friend's situation? Well, for one, your friend wouldn't have ANY insurance because his Hep C is a preexisting condition. He would be even worse off under the GOP's bill.

So why are you championing this bill again?
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:22 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,517,191 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979 View Post
This is true
So is this:

Twelve-Year-Old Died In 2007 From Abscessed Tooth After His Family's Medicaid Lapsed. In 2007, as The Washington Post reported:

Deamonte Driver, a 12-year-old homeless child, died Sunday in a District hospital after an infection from a molar spread to his brain.

At the time he fell ill, his family's Medicaid coverage had lapsed. Even on the state plan, his mother said, the children lacked regular dental care and she had great difficulty finding a dentist. [The Washington Post, 3/3/07]

Seventeen-Year-Old's Insurance Revoked After He Tests HIV Positive. According to Huffington Post, in 2009:

The South Carolina Supreme Court has ordered an insurance company to pay $10 million for wrongly revoking the insurance policy of a 17-year-old college student after he tested positive for HIV. The court called the 2002 decision by the insurance company "reprehensible."

[...]

Mitchell learned that he had HIV when, while heading to college, he donated blood. Fortis then rescinded his coverage, citing what turned out to be an erroneous note from a nurse in his medical records that indicated that he might have been diagnosed prior to his obtaining his insurance policy.

Before the cancellation of the policy, an underwriter working for Fortis wrote to a committee considering whether or not to rescind his policy: "Technically, we do not have the results of the HIV tests. This is the only entry in the medical records regarding HIV status. Is it sufficient?" The underwriter's concerns were ignored and the rescission went forward. [Huffington Post, 9/17/09]

Woman Denied Coverage For Breast Cancer Because She Wasn't Diagnosed At Correct Clinic. From The Wall Street Journal:

In June 2003, Shirley Loewe went to Good Shepherd Medical Center here with a softball-size lump in her breast and was diagnosed with a rare form of breast cancer. She didn't know it, but she had just made a big mistake.

Ms. Loewe was uninsured. Under federal law, she could have gotten Medicaid coverage -- and saved herself a lot of hardship -- if she'd gone to a different clinic less than a half-mile away. But by walking through Good Shepherd's doors, Ms. Loewe unwittingly let that opportunity slip and embarked on a four-year journey through the Byzantine U.S. health-care system.

It was an odyssey that would take her to five hospitals, two clinics, two charitable organizations and two nursing homes in two states. She was denied assistance or care at least six times along the way, for reasons that ranged from not being poor enough to not being sick enough.

Ms. Loewe eventually got treatment, but at personal cost and great aggravation. [The Wall Street Journal, 9/13/07]

Woman's Double Mastectomy Denied Over Disputed Acne Treatment. CNN reported that in 2009:

Robin Beaton found out last June she had an aggressive form of breast cancer and needed surgery -- immediately.

Her insurance carrier precertified her for a double mastectomy and hospital stay. But three days before the operation, the insurance company called and told her they had red-flagged her chart and she would not be able to have her surgery.

The reason? In May 2008, Beaton had visited a dermatologist for acne. A word written on her chart was interpreted to mean precancerous, so the insurance company decided to launch an investigation into her medical history.

Beaton's dermatologist begged her insurance provider to go ahead with the surgery.

[...]

Still, the insurance carrier decided to rescind her coverage. The company said it had reviewed her medical records and found out that she had misinformed them about some of her medical history.

Beaton had listed her weight incorrectly. She also didn't disclose medication she had taken for a pre-existing heart condition -- medicine she wasn't taking when she originally applied for coverage. [CNN, 6/16/09]

9/11 Responders Without Insurance Face Inferior Coverage For Sustained Injuries. From The New York Times:

The largest health study yet of the thousands of workers who labored at ground zero shows that the impact of the rescue and recovery effort on their health has been more widespread and persistent than previously thought, and is likely to linger far into the future.

The study, released yesterday by doctors at Mount Sinai Medical Center, is expected to erase any lingering doubts about the connection between dust from the trade center and numerous diseases that the workers have reported suffering. It is also expected to increase pressure on the federal government to provide health care for sick workers who do not have health insurance.

[...]

There should no longer be any doubt about the health effects of the World Trade Center disaster," said Dr. Robin Herbert, co-director of Mount Sinai's World Trade Center Worker and Volunteer Medical Screening Program. "Our patients are sick, and they will need ongoing care for the rest of their lives."

Dr. Herbert called the findings, which will be published tomorrow in Environmental Health Perspectives, the journal of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, "very worrisome," especially because 40 percent of those who went to Mount Sinai for medical screening did not have health insurance, and will thus not get proper medical care. [The New York Times, 9/6/06]

Thousands Of Americans Have Been Denied Health Coverage And Care

Twenty-Five Percent Of Adults Under 65 Say They Or A Family Member Have Been Denied Coverage Or Charged More For Having Pre-existing Condition. According to a June 2013 survey from the Kaiser Foundation, one quarter of respondents under 65 "say that they or a family member has ever been denied insurance or had their premium increased because of their pre-existing condition":

Americans with pre-existing medical conditions often face problems in getting and retaining good health insurance coverage, an issue dealt with directly by ACA in its "guaranteed issue" provision, which prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage to individuals on the basis of health status or pre-existing medical conditions beginning in 2014. The June survey finds that roughly half (49 percent) of adults under age 65 say they or someone in their household has a pre-existing condition, and many of them report problems related to getting and keeping insurance.

One quarter (25 percent) of these individuals (14 percent of all non-elderly adults) say that they or a family member has ever been denied insurance or had their premium increased because of their pre-existing condition. Further, nearly one in ten (9 percent) of these individuals say that in the past year, they or someone in their household has passed up a job opportunity, stayed at a job they would have quit otherwise, or decided not to retire in order to maintain their health coverage. [Kaiser Foundation, 6/19/13]

All pre-ACA conditions that the most intransigent wish to return to?
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:22 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,290,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post
Oh my. It looks like all the scare tactics of the Left are back. The same scare tactics that caused the passage of a "S" sandwich called Obamacare or laughably...the "affordable" care act (if that's not an oxymoron, I don't know what is).

So let's start with the exaggerated claims about pre existing illnesses. If you were to listen to Democrats at the time, you would have been convinced that millions of people had pre existing illnesses. In effect though, it was roughly 1 1/2% of the country. Why is that? Because most people are covered by either a government plan or their employers plan, to the tune of 90% (and those plans accept people with pre-existing illnesses). That leaves only 10% of the country to fend for private insurance, or approximately 30 million people. And for those 30 million people, their health care premiums have doubled since 2014. So it's been less affordable for them.
*Most* is a vast generalization. There are and has been millions without health care and what is your complaint about covering those other millions? You are paying when they are finally forced to address their illness anyway. You are paying for those on a government plan now. How many go on public assistance to get medical care for their condition? Would it not be cheaper for them to be able to work AND still access health care?

Quote:
Unfortunately, the Obama Administration threw out the rhetoric that one in every two Americans have pre existing illnesses amounting to approximately 129 million that would be denied coverage without health reform...Complete and utter BS! The actual plan is closer to 1.5 million or roughly 1 1/2% of the country. And in 2010, prior to Obamacare, a plan was put into place to remedy that called the PCIP (Pre Existing Conditions Inuance Plan), so why overhaul an entire system?. So did 1.5 million sign up for this? Hardly, try 114,959 in Feb of 2013. Which bring us to the next point.....are you going to force people to buy insurance (since over 1 million didn't in this case)? Apparently that the goal by making them pay a penalty if the don't. So let's make thing harder for those that don't have insurance (hey, there's a well thought out plan).

Of course the ultimate fallacy is that insurance equals health care. No, sorry, it does not. And if you can't afford the premiums or deductibles because gee...life gets in the way, somehow you can magically get health care, huh? Actually, you're pretty much in the same boat as those without because you're also waiting until you get extremely sick before going in (because you can't afford it).

The Harvard study that was listed earlier was long ago debunked as when you factor in a myriad of factors (i.e. smoking, alcohol consumption, obesity, etc.), you really can't isolate out insurance and show causation.

Add to this that there are still over 20 million people without insurance with Obamacare.

My fact checker rating of the comment....TRUE!

Please stop with the boring hyperbole.
This is NOT about the Obama administration. This is about people. Unfortunately there are many (and yes that is a generalization) that support things they do not support because it supports their party of choice. It's more important to promote your party over your principles.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:27 AM
 
882 posts, read 689,944 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
*Most* is a vast generalization. There are and has been millions without health care and what is your complaint about covering those other millions? You are paying when they are finally forced to address their illness anyway. You are paying for those on a government plan now. How many go on public assistance to get medical care for their condition? Would it not be cheaper for them to be able to work AND still access health care?



This is NOT about the Obama administration. This is about people. Unfortunately there are many (and yes that is a generalization) that support things they do not support because it supports their party of choice. It's more important to promote your party over your principles.
Congrats on that absolutely fantastic dodge and deflection. I love it when people can't refute a damn thing that you say and throw out a bunch of emotional gibberish. Don't take away my Obamacare!

I'm going to go enjoy the sunshine now, but do continue with your scare tactics. Have a nice day.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:36 AM
i7pXFLbhE3gq
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
This is NOT about the Obama administration. This is about people. Unfortunately there are many (and yes that is a generalization) that support things they do not support because it supports their party of choice. It's more important to promote your party over your principles.
I'm not sure these people actually have principles. There doesn't seem to be anything going on in their heads other than an absolute belief that whatever the GOP says is right.

Just look at the responses here.

One group simply denies that there's a problem at all, instead choosing to ignore all evidence and make some vague false claims about free care.

Another group says "f**k them all, let them die." Obviously they don't adopt such a position for themselves or their loved ones.

And another group argues that since things weren't perfect under Obama, we should probably go ahead and intentionally make things even worse. Improvement isn't even considered.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:37 AM
 
18,983 posts, read 9,097,504 times
Reputation: 14688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post
Congrats on that absolutely fantastic dodge and deflection. I love it when people can't refute a damn thing that you say and throw out a bunch of emotional gibberish. Don't take away my Obamacare!

I'm going to go enjoy the sunshine now, but do continue with your scare tactics. Have a nice day.
Wow, you write this long diatribe, but as soon as one poster tries to engage you, you run away? Way to stand by your convictions.

Nice going, pknopp.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:41 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,290,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking View Post
Congrats on that absolutely fantastic dodge and deflection. I love it when people can't refute a damn thing that you say and throw out a bunch of emotional gibberish. Don't take away my Obamacare!
I refuted everything you said. I've been against Obamacare from the beginning.

Quote:
I'm going to go enjoy the sunshine now, but do continue with your scare tactics. Have a nice day.
Yes, run away.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:44 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,290,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I'm not sure these people actually have principles. There doesn't seem to be anything going on in their heads other than an absolute belief that whatever the GOP says is right.
This is NOT just a problem with GOP hypocrisy. Obama lied his ass off concerning the ACA. Those lies have harmed many but the complaints were few.


Quote:
Just look at the responses here.

One group simply denies that there's a problem at all, instead choosing to ignore all evidence and make some vague false claims about free care.

Another group says "f**k them all, let them die." Obviously they don't adopt such a position for themselves or their loved ones.

And another group argues that since things weren't perfect under Obama, we should probably go ahead and intentionally make things even worse. Improvement isn't even considered.
Not perfect? Obamacare was a sell out to Wall Street. It did a lot of harm. We had a guy that would have tried to do the right thing but the DNC lied and cheated to undermine him.
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