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Old 05-07-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,353,510 times
Reputation: 1229

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
If those rights are inherent, then they don't need to be written in a government document. They'll just...exist. Correct?
Yep. The alternative is that certain people get to decide what your rights are, so if they decide you have none and that they're allowed to kill you, that's totally fine. They are the ones who determine rights, and they say you have none.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,702 posts, read 18,781,503 times
Reputation: 22545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
The definition of Human Rights is

"a right that is believed to belong justifiably to every person.'

No mention of labour.
So, then, do you believe that you indeed have the right to force others to serve you? And should we all hold that belief?
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:56 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,016 posts, read 16,978,303 times
Reputation: 30137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Americans pay up to 4x as much for their healthcare from hospital stays to medicine to health insurance. If you get a chance, do some reading. Its quite eye opening.
Then why are doctors in other countries such as Canada and Pakistan flocking here? The obvious answer is that the way costs are held down is to reduce pay to providers and ration care.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:00 PM
 
2,189 posts, read 2,604,886 times
Reputation: 3736
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Can we have a human right to free electricity too? I have seen some really nice Mercedes on the road lately, what about a human right to transportation....at least make the buses and rail workers work for free.. we deserve free protection as well. Can't we force police officers and firemen to work for free and punish them if the refuse... why are we paying for people in the military, they should be working for free... and then give me the money saved from not paying them...
Do you know you are actually making the argument for universal health care that's paid into by everyone for the benefit of everyone? Bus drivers and rail workers are paid by everyone to work for the benefit of everyone. Police officers and firemen are paid by everyone to work for the benefit of everyone. The military are paid by everyone to work for the benefit of everyone.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:01 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,702 posts, read 18,781,503 times
Reputation: 22545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
If those rights are inherent, then they don't need to be written in a government document. They'll just...exist. Correct?
Yes. The founders of this nation stated that they are self evident:

We hold these truths to be self-evident: ... etc, etc ...

Thus, it was obvious to them. It seems to no longer be obvious. But is that their fault for pointing them out or our fault for not being able to comprehend these self-evident truths?
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:05 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,957,401 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Then why are doctors in other countries such as Canada and Pakistan flocking here? The obvious answer is that the way costs are held down is to reduce pay to providers and ration care.
such as Canada and Pakistan?

Pakistan is a third world country. How can you even compare Canada to Pakistan???

ration care? What do you think insurance companies are there for? They have armies of people denying people care. Denying care is profitable. And they seek profits. And even outside the insurance company scam, care is rationed by ability to pay.

How can you be a democrat and not see the elephant in the room; in a market based for-profit health care system, the costs will be as high as the market can bear. "Customers" are desperate and uninformed. Cancer drugs are not like buying a new TV. Price gouging on everything is rampant. Except preventative health care. Because thats not profitable!
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,874 posts, read 10,524,538 times
Reputation: 4494
How can someone get upset because the fact that they are healthy ends up paying for someone elses health costs.

I ve been extremely healthy all my life.

I paid for insurance cause i want fast instant care in case i ever need it.

Did i ever need it in 34 years? No

Was i paying for a service i ended up not needing for many many years? Yes

Did i end up subsidizing the not so healthy ones because of it? Yes

What kind of a twisted, selfish, emotionally damaged human being you have to be that the thought of accidentally helping someone else enrages you so much??
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:08 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,957,401 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Yes. The founders of this nation stated that they are self evident:

We hold these truths to be self-evident: ... etc, etc ...

Thus, it was obvious to them. It seems to no longer be obvious. But is that their fault for pointing them out or our fault for not being able to comprehend these self-evident truths?
Are you a libertarian?

I frequently come across libertarians who hide behind the constitution and the flag in order to deny poor, sick people the care they need.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
9,189 posts, read 7,596,157 times
Reputation: 7801
Yes.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,543,399 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
No, societies grew because division of labor allowed for specialization. For 99% of history this division has been exploitative, not cooperative.
True, but to get a group to agree to divide labour, takes cooperation. Cogs in a wheel.
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