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The only issue with this is that, at least in my area, there are very strict zoning laws to prevent any hovels being built (no tiny homes, no tiny lots) there is only one area that is zoned for modular homes (not trailers, but premanufactured buildings). Then when someone finds themselves homeless they are arrested or harassed by police as it is illegal to be homeless where I am.
Would the free market be forced to re-zone at a local level or would the state govt step in and set up things that the feds once did? Even if a state decided that how would said state attract investment if another state was willing to trash their eviorment and issue permits cart blanch in order to draw in "employers" at the expense of their land scape, water etc.
Maybe the states themselves would have to build up the means of production and then have state ran production?
I feel like their are unforeseen consequences to just having state govts run the show, but perhaps that is what is going on now anyways? Though I think a big argument is the volume of land the fed govt owns west of the Mississippi, but even if that land were sold off would it be sold off to the states and still used as public lands or would we just be trading a fed sign with a dirt bag hilly billy sign stating I will be killed.
No zoning law other than for environmental reasons......full reserve credit system would prevent overbuilding and MacMansions for a family of four.
I do not support unbridled immigration...libertarianism does not mean anarchy....you still have a country that decides who comes in and if there is a real shortage and not just desire to lower wages.
In a libertarian society you will not change car every 3 years because there would be no access to government/central bank sponsored (in a way or another) cheap credit. Our entire model or over-consumption would disappear....you would repair your shoes if the sole get worn off.....
Government would be supported by honest taxation and a small amount of government debt....for example you would pay sales taxes on your house like any other items (if the country decides to have a sales tax)....no RE speculation.
Sorry, I thought Gary Johnson was for open borders. I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph but our consumption society won't allow for it.
You cannot apply libertarian ideas and principle and then seeing things through the lens of the current system. Very high cost of certain assets, rents, labor shortage, etc...are often direct results of our society not being organized in a libertarian way and the the state playing favorites and sponsoring monopolies left and right.
One thing that baffles me is how the so called "progressives" and liberals (the north american term for liberal) fail to understand that a society organized in a libertarian way would be much more better for the environment as well...no such waste of resources.
Your right you would not have govt granted monopoly but it can be argued that a natural monopoply such as Rockefeller had is worse as the govt cant pull their favor based on voters. A natural monopoly can only be busted up by anti trust but that is very rarely enforced. And federal enforcement of anti trust would be contrary to libritarianism so how would such anti competitive behavior be regulated?
There will always be smarter and stronger people, the big question is should they be allowed to make the rest of us into feudal surfs? I almost think nationalism preceeds libritarianism as most people are cut out of the good life in a libritarian model, a hand ful of people buy up the prime real estate and everyone else works for peanuts, all the upper eschelon buy and sell amongst themselves and very very rarely someone is able to save up enough peanuts after decades and buy in (assuming the asset holders have not already sold out of the area and moved else where leaving the peanut saver with worthless property).
At a ceritan point a lot of people just get po'ed and start a shooting war .... where your private property, means of production deeds etc no longer have meaning such as WW2.
My hope is that I am all wet in my thinking and that free markets would be glorious and that we would have perfect competition people could work a reasonable job (not some mike row wet dream job working in a mine for $8/hr) and save enough in 4-5 years to buy a piece of the action. If someone wanted to fast track it in a year or two then they could do the mike row thing. This whole saving up for 20-30 years to get anywhere does not seem like a good deal ...
Last edited by pittsflyer; 05-23-2017 at 04:25 PM..
Your right you would not have govt granted monopoly but it can be argued that a natural monopoply such as Rockefeller had is worse as the govt cant pull their favor based on voters. A natural monopoly can only be busted up by anti trust but that is very rarely enforced. And federal enforcement of anti trust would be contrary to libritarianism so how would such anti competitive behavior be regulated?
There will always be smarter and stronger people, the big question is should they be allowed to make the rest of us into feudal surfs?
Monopolies are in a way or another sponsored by the government (the King in ancient times) and/or a fractionally reserve banking system.
I agree that any areas where there cannot be a real open competition/very high natural barriers should be run as a public service...for example the road system.
Feudal times were the farthest thing from being a libertarian era.
So my wife and most of her family are all Libertarian. When we have discussions they have very well reasoned arguments and I am convinced. Then I go back and think how can we rely on the free market when there is a gross over supply of labor/people for the jobs that are available? When the asset classes necessary to start a business are many many orders of magnitude larger than average wages.
An example being hundreds of people applying for any given GOOD job opening, that's not healthy. Or when the average income for an area might be 77k (4330 net a month) a year and real estate is 300-400k and rents are 1200 a month or more which is over 25% of the average income.
That's not even getting into the cost of commercial real estate in order to start a small business ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liars Poker
Mass population reduction = deportation of illegal aliens and elimination of unnecessary visa programs.
Add in an elimination of outsourcing and offshoring and let's see where we are.
THAT^^^^^^^^^^^
Mass illegal immigrant reduction, increased legal immigration. Legal immigrants add to the economy while illegals are a drain on it. The left ignore they are two separate entities.
So my wife and most of her family are all Libertarian. When we have discussions they have very well reasoned arguments and I am convinced. Then I go back and think how can we rely on the free market when there is a gross over supply of labor/people for the jobs that are available? When the asset classes necessary to start a business are many many orders of magnitude larger than average wages.
An example being hundreds of people applying for any given GOOD job opening, that's not healthy. Or when the average income for an area might be 77k (4330 net a month) a year and real estate is 300-400k and rents are 1200 a month or more which is over 25% of the average income.
That's not even getting into the cost of commercial real estate in order to start a small business ...
Also the cost of education vastly exceeds modern day entry level wages (if you can even get a job).
Can the free market sort this out, or will the gross oversupply of people be exploited until there is some sort of mass population reduction event?
There is no such thing as a free market and thank god for that. No developed nation anywhere on the planet has anything even vaguely approaching a "free" market nor would they want to.
The backbone of the USA is in fact it's highly restrictive markets filled with complex regulations that protect innovators, creators and those who build brands etc. it requires a lot of support and a lot of selfless dedication .
Libertarians are just greedy people who want to take take take and never put back a nickel. They are dumb enough to think the the wealth they created was due to them, when the reality is 99.99% of wealth created is due to others.
It matters not who you are or what you do, almost all of the work you are claiming as your own comes from the cooperation of others. From the poeple who don't just kill you and take your work to the poeple who purchase you work using fiat currency. And those who skills allow yours to be of any worth at all.
Libertarians are the worse lairs on the planet, they pretend they want small gov, as long as that gov provides enough support for THEM to profit, just enough for that and no more or no less.
They are leeches , using the infrastructure built over generations, using the education provided by the state hiding behind the skirts of the military and graves of those who protected this land before them.
There is no such thing as a free market and thank god for that. No developed nation anywhere on the planet has anything even vaguely approaching a "free" market nor would they want to.
The backbone of the USA is in fact it's highly restrictive markets filled with complex regulations that protect innovators, creators and those who build brands etc. it requires a lot of support and a lot of selfless dedication .
Libertarians are just greedy people who want to take take take and never put back a nickel. They are dumb enough to think the the wealth they created was due to them, when the reality is 99.99% of wealth created is due to others.
It matters not who you are or what you do, almost all of the work you are claiming as your own comes from the cooperation of others. From the poeple who don't just kill you and take your work to the poeple who purchase you work using fiat currency. And those who skills allow yours to be of any worth at all.
Libertarians are the worse lairs on the planet, they pretend they want small gov, as long as that gov provides enough support for THEM to profit, just enough for that and no more or no less.
They are leeches , using the infrastructure built over generations, using the education provided by the state hiding behind the skirts of the military and graves of those who protected this land before them.
No zoning law other than for environmental reasons......full reserve credit system would prevent overbuilding and MacMansions for a family of four.
So how would someone who wanted a tiny home go about getting a tiny lot and utilities hooked up in a libritarian society. How do you ensure that you minimize the "get off my lawn" personalities from taking over?
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