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So this is NOT about the horrible stabbing in Portland exclusively. Of course my question comes from the surprise that this piece of scum was supporting Bernie Sanders for president...
I'm just wondering how much certain elements of the far right and far left do have in common?
And I'm talking about the real fringy types. Both extremes are certainly anti Zionists for example...
Here's an article explaining how Richard Spencer isn't really a conservative, (even though he and most actual Neo Nazis did support Trump)
So I have to admit it's a bit confusing... are most White Nationalists the opposite of Libertarians? Are they fiscally liberal, like advocating big social programs but socially conservative?
Do they have varying views but are all in agreement with racial hatred?
The Trump supporters I know personally aren't racists, and even my right wing brother would have voted for Biden (makes true the notion to me that a lot of Trump votes were anti Hillary)
But no denying he had the support of the cesspool that is The Daily Stormer and the sociopaths over there.
Fringy politics get scary and at times unpredictable.
Here's an article explaining how Richard Spencer isn't really a conservative
It's amazing that that even needs to be explained. Spencer has very little in common with mainstream conservatives.
Quote:
Do they have varying views but are all in agreement with racial hatred?
They aren't all in agreement with racial hatred. Some white racialists are hateful toward other races but many, including Spencer, David Duke and Jared Taylor, stress that they are pro-white and not anti-others.
It's amazing that that even needs to be explained. Spencer has very little in common with mainstream conservatives.
They aren't all in agreement with racial hatred. Some white racialists are hateful toward other races but many, including Spencer, David Duke and Jared Taylor, stress that they are pro-white and not anti-others.
Well David Duke, Spencer, and Taylor if they are so enlightened should realize you can be pro white and also pro black, pro Hispanic, pro woman, at the same time. It's not mutually exclusive.
Well David Duke, Spencer, and Taylor if they are so enlightened should realize you can be pro white and also pro black, pro Hispanic, pro woman, at the same time. It's not mutually exclusive.
Really? Can you point to an example of a prominent person who is all of those things?
First off some definitions of these terms as I understand them. White nationalism is the belief that white people comprise a nation and should unite, excluding non-whites from the polity in some fashion; basically a pan-nationalism for whites with racism added in. White supremacy is the belief that whites are superior to other races and non-whites should in some fashion be subordinate solely on account of their race*.
From what I've seen aside from white supremacy white supremacists hold to the same spectrum of political views everyone else does, with the notable exceptions that the alternative right, fascists, and Nazis are way over-represented, and progressives and "true conservatives" (Glenn Beck types basically) are way under-represented. In other words white supremacists come in all shapes and sizes. White nationalists are the same way, except that there's a much higher concentration of fascists and Nazis and everyone else is less represented. A substantial number of white supremacists are libertarians whereas very few white nationalists are (both are of course a tiny minority of libertarians, as they are in all groupings except neo-Nazis).
This may be due to white supremacy, as a lifestyle choice and social disposition, being more compatible with libertarianism than white nationalism is; it's quite easy to abide by the non-aggression principle while treating other races as social inferiors and excluding them from your property, but it's quite hard to exclude non-whites from the polity anywhere white people live without aggression.
*This is important. For example, merely thinking the average white is brighter than the average black is not racist. If you believe blacks are your equals regardless and treat a bright black man the same as you would a bright white man and vice versa then that is not racism since race is not a factor, only intellect is. On the other hand if you believe all black people should be treated differently from all white people because the average black is dimmer then that is racism, especially since a dim white is presumed smarter than a bright black; the only factor here is race. I personally believe these empirical questions are irrelevant to the cause of racial equality, since the entire premise of anti-racism is that everyone of every race is entitled to full and equal rights solely by virtue of common humanity; the traits of the average member of whatever population they're a part of is irrelevant**. In fact the belief that only white men and groups identical to white men are entitled to any rights, which today is commonly accepted, is abhorrent to the fundamental premise of equality, and was used by Nazis as the excuse for what they did. Even if Slavs etc. were inferior from or different to Aryans what their racist policy would have been in the wrong regardless.
**And even given a large gap the bell curve ensures substantial overlap; e.g. for any IQ gap other than one substantially higher than any on record the brightest members of a dim race will still be brighter than the dimmest members of a bright race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
They aren't all in agreement with racial hatred. Some white racialists are hateful toward other races but many, including Spencer, David Duke and Jared Taylor, stress that they are pro-white and not anti-others.
If it helps anyone else here to understand the difference, I like to think of it as the difference between actually hating other races and taking an otherwise healthy love for your own race too far.
If it helps anyone else here to understand the difference, I like to think of it as the difference between actually hating other races and taking an otherwise healthy love for your own race too far.
Well, it is healthy and normal to love your family and be loyal to them, and to a lesser degree your extended family. Races are very large extended families that are somewhat inbred, so I think it is normal to feel a certain degree of connection to a member of your own race beyond what you might feel for others, but of course some take it way too far. As a rule, in America, it is not white people who are doing that.
So this is NOT about the horrible stabbing in Portland exclusively. Of course my question comes from the surprise that this piece of scum was supporting Bernie Sanders for president...
I'm just wondering how much certain elements of the far right and far left do have in common?
And I'm talking about the real fringy types. Both extremes are certainly anti Zionists for example...
Here's an article explaining how Richard Spencer isn't really a conservative, (even though he and most actual Neo Nazis did support Trump)
So I have to admit it's a bit confusing... are most White Nationalists the opposite of Libertarians? Are they fiscally liberal, like advocating big social programs but socially conservative?
Do they have varying views but are all in agreement with racial hatred?
The Trump supporters I know personally aren't racists, and even my right wing brother would have voted for Biden (makes true the notion to me that a lot of Trump votes were anti Hillary)
But no denying he had the support of the cesspool that is The Daily Stormer and the sociopaths over there.
Fringy politics get scary and at times unpredictable.
Pssst, one never judges others, including political ideologies by those of a Nut Job. I would not call him a rightwinger, or a leftwinger, I doubt he knows what he is, what he is is mentally ill and his hate is just a manifestation of that illness.
Believe me other than some mental health specialist he has nothing to teach anyone other than to be careful confronting one.
There are white supremacists of all races, across the political spectrum. The reason we tend to associate it with the right is because The GOP has made upholding white supremacy an unspoken part of its platform. When you hear leftists complaining about "identity politics" there's a pretty good chance they're white supremacists.
When you hear leftists complaining about "identity politics" there's a pretty good chance they're white supremacists.
When you hear people calling leftists who complain about identity politics "white supremacists", you can understand just how bad things have gotten. This is the attitude behind much of the recent drama on college campuses.
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