Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Before he landed the apprenticeship that doubled his wages, Ron Robinson learned how to drive a forklift, mix cement and perform CPR. This training, he said, set him up for a lucrative construction job — and he got it all for free.
Over the last year, the Milwaukee resident went from cleaning houses for $12 an hour to helping demolish them for $24.
Now Robinson fears President Trump's proposed cuts to the country’s job-training programs could jeopardize the very service the 49-year-old thanks for his upward mobility.
“It’d be a big mistake for our future,” he said. “Losing this stuff would be a minus for the construction world and the state of Wisconsin.”
On Tuesday, Trump, his older daughter Ivanka Trump and Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta will travel to a technical college in Waukesha County, Wisconsin — 20 miles from Robinson's home -- to highlight the administration's plan to downsize government-funded job training programs and replace them with private-sector partnerships.
The Trumps plan to tour job-training classrooms, meet with local business owners and talk about ways to connect job seekers to talent-hungry companies.
That’s particularly challenging in places like Waukesha County, where the unemployment rate is 3.2 percent — significantly lower than the nation’s rate of 4.3 percent. Employers in such areas can have trouble filling roles. even as they raise wages, Ivanka Trump noted in a press call last week.
“The reality is that there are still Americans seeking employment despite low unemployment rates, and companies are struggling to fill vacancies for positions that require various levels of skills and training,” she said. “So the Trump administration is committed to working very closely to close the skills gap.”
A White House spokesperson said the president wants to tackle this issue by expanding apprenticeships and deploying federal funds more efficiently. Further details, they said, will come Wednesday in a labor policy speech.
However, critics accuse Trump of hurting the people he's attempting to help.
What was the so called "Apprenticeship" that were created under the Andrew Johnson allowance of the South, post slavery?
"“Apprentice" laws assigned young African-Americans to "guardians," who were often their former owners, and dictated that they should work without wages in return for their board and clothing. To the Southerners these laws seemed to be only the necessary protection of the white population against the deeds of crime and violence to which a large, wandering, unemployed body of blacks might be tempted."
Why not simply IMPROVE THE JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS AND GIVE THE THE FUNDING TO SUPPORT AN HONEST PROGRAM THAT TRULY TRAIN PEOPLE?
Instead of subsidizing the Private Company to hire them at a substandard wage/, because that is what will happen, and the benefit will go to the company, and we know !!!! the company can easily terminate one and hire another to prolong in a continuing process, as an assurance to keep a longer process of receiving such subsidies.....
In light of the fact, Trump DOES NOT support increased minimum wages to a living wage standard... how is this to help the person more than it helps the company that is claiming to be promoting "Apprenticeship" ?
What do you think? Good.... Bad........ Questionable ....... or What ??????
Last edited by Chance and Change; 06-13-2017 at 06:39 AM..
All these threads lately have become soooo hilarious. Over the last few months I've come to believe all this ranting and raving about Trump or Hillary or Obama (and their minions) between all the obviously partisan participants is just a colossal waste of time and computer resources.
It's very clear that nobody is going to change the minds of anyone else on here no matter what evidence is shown in either direction, or how long of a novel you write.
Y'all are too busy bashing either side (or being paid to bash) to stop and actually consider other opinions.
Clearly a case of "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".
What a waste...
All these threads lately have become soooo hilarious. Over the last few months I've come to believe all this ranting and raving about Trump or Hillary or Obama (and their minions) between all the obviously partisan participants is just a colossal waste of time and computer resources.
It's very clear that nobody is going to change the minds of anyone else on here no matter what evidence is shown in either direction, or how long of a novel you write.
Y'all are too busy bashing either side (or being paid to bash) to stop and actually consider other opinions.
Clearly a case of "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".
What a waste...
That may or may not be the case... depends on how people think about it - as individuals.
What is true, however that truth may play out... is "everyone who engages this site is a human being" unless they've developed some AI Bots that generate commentary and response.
Communication has been a wonderful gift to mankind, even among people who may not speak the same language, they utilize communications to expand their interactions and in doing so, mankind has changed the world many times over. Words are powerful, and thoughts carry forth much, that no single individual can determine how it resonates with volumes of individuals. "Thoughts" can help some who choose to, expand their awareness, it can help some modify and even change their perceptions when information is embraced to the enlightenment of one and/or another. There will be always people who choose to be static, and those who also choose to be obstinate, and there is those who refuse to grow and change; but equally so there are those who engage to be motivated, inspired, inquiring, and some even moved to actions for the betterment of themselves and those around them. People can read something, that may promote or invoke conversations without their groups, and some are broad minded enough that they engage with others outside of their immediate group about some thought that was share, words that were heard, or concept that were presented. These are just "some" of the things that communication has powers to do...
Thus so... even if one is using the name Trump, Hillary, or Obama, or any other figure of Political History, or Contributory Figure in this world, be it on this soil or another soil... They speak of Ideals, Ideas, and what of impacts that acts and actions have, did have and may have, and even of what actions something will have. This is even broader in relative perspective's when one looks at the expanse of the world, and the many ways that life is lived...
You might want to ask yourself, or might I ask, if you believe what you've written, then what is your motivation for being on the webportal and what then is your motivation in posting commentary?
My concerns INCLUDE question as to what programs are cut, who determines it and how it is determined? then another aspect of concern is: with the element of "Apprentice" , considering in context as is related to the $7.25 hr minimum wage figure, which in relative terms, is not more than what the adjusted for today's inflation cost,as to what it would currently cost to house, feed and clothe a slave, with allotment for bare minimal basics.
If a person is young, living with parents and trying to find course and direction it might function as an option, but what impact does it present for an adult who is independent, and certainly an adult who has a child this will not be good for some; because the minute they gain income other benefits are "cut", and it thrust them in a different model of being improvised, where their benefit cuts pose challenges they can't easily overcome- if they have a child and try to get a second job, then the issue impacts the child having an absent parent. SO... Rate of Pay Matters. Now there are options, (Pay them without having taxes deducted, allow them to retain their benefits up to 24 months, and set a plan, where they can at least have as mandated responsibility to save at least $100 a month, then this person may be able to have a chance to work themselves upwards and have a reserve built of at the very least $2400 after two years, then if there is a gradual cut in benefit, hopefully by then it is structurally offset by and increase in pay).. Thus so, if we are going to do it. Let's do it the right way. $2400 reserve may not be much to some people, but it is a sense of stability for a great many, that helps them have a positive outlook..
President Clinton had a programs, "Welfare to Work" but, what Clinton did not do is promote some obsessed driven aim to give massive tax breaks to the wealthy as part of his core agenda.
President Trump's plan is in some parts a matter of Name difference, but what are the "structural difference" and has there been improvements that give the program better potential for performance matrix. OR is it just another part of "CUTS" for the sake of "giving the wealthy a tax break and trying to pay for doing so, by cutting benefit and services to the mass population?" That has to be a dominant question, when it come to Trump, because his mentality regarding his obsession to massively cut the tax on the wealthy and trying to justify doing so at the expense of the poor, the challenged and disadvantaged. We know he is adverse to paying taxes, and he is also adverse to any taxes paid being utilized for helping the poor and disadvantaged and other challenged members of society.
His Agenda is what makes his motives of untrustworthy conduct when it comes to the people. He say's one thing, but his policies contradicts what he says, and the aim of his actions result to be directly targeted against public assistance programming, whether it concerning health, jobs training, and any other element that exist to benefit and provide support programming and structure to and for the people.
It has not just stopped in this sector, people should familiarize themselves with the aims and plans of Betty Devos, and how that is structured and how it impacts.
Trump is not a Charitable Man, and that was seen when the inquiries address his own charitable foundations, and it was proven when he fleeced young people who were seeking means to improve their lives, when he looted them purposefully with the fraudulent Trump University Scam. Even now, his Son is being investigated for diverting funds from a charity, thus so, it is likely that No Trump Charity should be allowed, because they'd demonstrated to not be honorable to the cause of such programs. The claim of donation to Veterans, was not made "until" the press discovered that he had not met the claim, and then to cover his tracks, he them made it after the fact.
America has big issue when it has such example that continue to mount of the untrustworthy nature, character and the high volume of issue that concern the President. At no time in American history has people been as willing as the Right Wing is to "give a pass" and accept such conduct and acts of any person within the office of the President. The Integrity of this nation has been put up on the domestic and international stage with massive question posed unto it, and that is something very difficult to recover from; compound that to only a decade ago when one looks back at the the mass swindles involving our banking, Bonds and Bond Rating System, inclusive of invasions of war, that resulted to destabilize the entirety of the middle east. Selective Amnesia may make some want to dismiss all of this, but fact is, its can't be dismissed and the World Community of Nations does not have Selective Amnesia, as does some of our domestic citizens whom thrive on devotion to embracing amnesia selectively.
If a person is young, living with parents and trying to find course and direction it might function as an option,
but what impact does it present for an adult who is independent, and certainly an adult who has a child this will not be good for some; because the minute they gain income other benefits are "cut", and it thrust them in a different model of being improvised, where their benefit cuts pose challenges they can't easily overcome- if they have a child and try to get a second job, then the issue impacts the child having an absent parent. SO... Rate of Pay Matters.
Now there are options, (Pay them without having taxes deducted, allow them to retain their benefits up to 24 months, and set a plan, where they can at least have as mandated responsibility to save at least $100 a month, then this person may be able to have a chance to work themselves upwards and have a reserve built of at the very least $2400 after two years, then if there is a gradual cut in benefit, hopefully by then it is structurally offset by and increase in pay).. Thus so, if we are going to do it. Let's do it the right way. $2400 reserve may not be much to some people, but it is a sense of stability for a great many, that helps them have a positive outlook..
... The Integrity of this nation has been put up on the domestic and international stage with massive question posed unto it, and that is something very difficult to recover from; compound that to only a decade ago when one looks back at the the mass swindles involving our banking, Bonds and Bond Rating System, inclusive of invasions of war, that resulted to destabilize the entirety of the middle east.
Sir, many thought-provoking ideas however I must return at a later date... my brain is too exhausted to respond in a coherent manner. Thank You for putting forth Your thoughts.
A quick question Sir, how do You think the interests of the dis-advantaged can be advanced in the current political climate, and the Congressional composition? Would this mean religious groups have to become more involved?
Sir, many thought-provoking ideas however I must return at a later date... my brain is too exhausted to respond in a coherent manner. Thank You for putting forth Your thoughts.
A quick question Sir, how do You think the interests of the dis-advantaged can be advanced in the current political climate, and the Congressional composition? Would this mean religious groups have to become more involved?
Religious groups for those of the population whom are religious, as there are some who are atheist who want no religious involvement in their lives.
As to the Organizations of Religion, I think they should always be involved within the communities they exist, but no on a political level, as in assembling as PAC's.
On Social, Cultural and Religious Principle Educations, and they may even engage in sponsoring various programs that help people prepare themselves for understanding their responsibility within and unto the community, some provide varies categories of assistance, but that is and should be based on their benevolence programming, and their community outreach... something which some do, some do it well, some less so, and other are mostly congregation-ally concerned.
However, some Religious Organizations, set up.. "separate non profit divisions", which must operate administratively and financially from the the Church, (in other words no commingling of funds) in these cases they may apply for and utilize various forms of Federal grant funding.
Explanation;
Quote:
What are the rules on funding religious activity with Federal money?
The United States Supreme Court has said that faith-based organizations may not use direct government support to support "inherently religious" activities. Don't be put off by the term "inherently religious" - it's simply a phrase that has been used by the courts in church-state cases. Basically, it means you can not use any part of a direct Federal grant to fund religious worship, instruction, or proselytization. Instead, organizations may use government money only to support the non-religious social services that they provide. Therefore, faith-based organizations that receive direct governmental funds should take steps to separate, in time or location, their inherently religious activities from the government-funded services that they offer. Such organizations should also carefully account for their use of all government money.
This does not mean your organization can't have religious activities. It simply means you can't use taxpayer dollars to fund them. Some faith-based organizations set up separate charitable organizations (so-called "501(c)(3) corporations") to keep programs that receive government money separate from those that engage in inherently religious activities.
A faith-based organization should take steps to ensure that its inherently religious activities, such as religious worship, instruction, or proselytization, are separate - in time or location - from the government-funded services that it offers. If, for example, your church receives Federal money to help unemployed people improve their job skills, you may conduct this program in a room in the church hall and still have a Bible study taking place in another room in the same hall (but no Federal money can be used to conduct the Bible study). Or a faith-based social service provider may conduct its programs in the same room that it uses to conduct religious activities, so long as its government-funded services and its religious activities are held at different times. If you have any questions or doubts, you should check with the official who administers your Federal funds.
The Trump proposed Repeal SEEKS TO allow the Church Organization to engage in PAC actives and develop and promote party and party agenda, and to endorse party and party agenda, by the power of congregation and its outreach to do so, and still retain their tax exempt status.
Most people understand these things!!!! but sadly, when "crafty and covert agenda based people pursue "to swindle, misuse or chase power and seek authoritarian rule", they will pursue means to confound matters, and seek to distort structure, for the sake of the advantage they seek.
One need only have listed to Trump speak at the Faith and Freedom Coalition recently, it then is quite evident what is within his agenda, and what of promise he made to these Evangelicals not only regarding this matter, but of the matter of filling the Supreme Court and denigrating the Democrats as being as he called Obstructionist. Yet, for the past 8 yrs, these same group participated and supported Republican Agenda in awareness of the Republican Pledge to be Confirmed Obstructionist by the making of such pledge.
Result: Hypocrisy at its height demonstrated overtly... as if it feels and entitlement to be and do so. Such is quite dangerous.
As with people, many don't awaken until the results of their choice to be unaware, or choose a disposition of ignorance, or embrace a sense of apathy and even those sometimes who become party to such, don't truly awaken... until the ramifications land at their doorstep and come across the threshold into their home.
People as within much of America is caught in a spin of perceived despair, and some are in situation of self believed desperation even though they may have means and sustenance, and some or flat out oblivious to much, and some are caught in the vanity of themselves or the lust of their fantasies desires, and some are in dire impoverishment of pure destitution, they too become awakened when ramifications land at their doorstep and come into their home...
Last edited by Chance and Change; 06-13-2017 at 12:47 PM..
All these threads lately have become soooo hilarious. Over the last few months I've come to believe all this ranting and raving about Trump or Hillary or Obama (and their minions) between all the obviously partisan participants is just a colossal waste of time and computer resources.
It's very clear that nobody is going to change the minds of anyone else on here no matter what evidence is shown in either direction, or how long of a novel you write.
Y'all are too busy bashing either side (or being paid to bash) to stop and actually consider other opinions.
Clearly a case of "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".
What a waste...
It's entertainment seeing some of the reactions here. Don't get me started if something anti-Trump is posted. Then you get assaulted with threats of violence and outright civil war should their orange god get deposed.
It's entertainment seeing some of the reactions here. Don't get me started if something anti-Trump is posted. Then you get assaulted with threats of violence and outright civil war should their orange god get deposed.
Deservedly so if the best one can do is act like a child and call someone names...
What was the so called "Apprenticeship" that were created under the Andrew Johnson allowance of the South, post slavery?
"“Apprentice" laws assigned young African-Americans to "guardians," who were often their former owners, and dictated that they should work without wages in return for their board and clothing. To the Southerners these laws seemed to be only the necessary protection of the white population against the deeds of crime and violence to which a large, wandering, unemployed body of blacks might be tempted."
Why not simply IMPROVE THE JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS AND GIVE THE THE FUNDING TO SUPPORT AN HONEST PROGRAM THAT TRULY TRAIN PEOPLE?
Instead of subsidizing the Private Company to hire them at a substandard wage/, because that is what will happen, and the benefit will go to the company, and we know !!!! the company can easily terminate one and hire another to prolong in a continuing process, as an assurance to keep a longer process of receiving such subsidies.....
In light of the fact, Trump DOES NOT support increased minimum wages to a living wage standard... how is this to help the person more than it helps the company that is claiming to be promoting "Apprenticeship" ?
What do you think? Good.... Bad........ Questionable ....... or What ??????
To make the long story short - bad idea.
To begin with, one needs to analyze why those *construction companies* can't find labor. I wonder whether it has got anything to do with the repeal of prevailing wage laws in Wisconsin.
But that's Wisconsin - the conservatives love to have cheap disposable labor there, and since apparently they find less and less people willing to work for cheap, they are looking into "indentured servitude" already - the way you've put it.
At that, I am not saying that companies can't training people; from what I remember, it's done in Germany for example, but that's REPUTABLE companies, not the ones set for indentured servitude.
Another thought on a subject - of course the whole system of American secondary education has to be re-evaluated and overhauled I think, with the process of learning trades incorporated into it; the way it currently operates, it barely serves the purpose, but I don't think it's going to be done for a number of reasons.
To make the long story short - bad idea.
To begin with, one needs to analyze why those *construction companies* can't find labor. I wonder whether it has got anything to do with the repeal of prevailing wage laws in Wisconsin.
But that's Wisconsin - the conservatives love to have cheap disposable labor there, and since apparently they find less and less people willing to work for cheap, they are looking into "indentured servitude" already - the way you've put it.
At that, I am not saying that companies can't training people; from what I remember, it's done in Germany for example, but that's REPUTABLE companies, not the ones set for indentured servitude.
Another thought on a subject - of course the whole system of American secondary education has to be re-evaluated and overhauled I think, with the process of learning trades incorporated into it; the way it currently operates, it barely serves the purpose, but I don't think it's going to be done for a number of reasons.
Quote:
Another thought on a subject - of course the whole system of American secondary education has to be re-evaluated and overhauled I think, with the process of learning trades incorporated into it; the way it currently operates, it barely serves the purpose, but I don't think it's going to be done for a number of reasons
That first reason is Betty Devos - her plan is to take things a step beyond where Reagan took it, and defund even more "public" educational programming, and shift the money to the well to do and other privately operated institution; as in promoting privatization of public facility, as well as, so it serves like university federal grant money service at the Ivy League level. thus so, the "feeder schools" will be funded by federal and state money, and the wealthy parents can then use their money to promote and advance alumni funding thus mimicking the expensive programming found at Ivy League, to be even more improved at the feeder school system. The well to do, basically want their taxes to be used 'strictly on what benefits them", they don't have the sense of concern that the Federal System designed, where All help each other and society as a whole help the less fortunate. They only want the less fortune to be helped by the private foundations set up by the wealthy, because it provides them a tax credit, and they get to pretend they are doing it for humanitarian reasons, but tax deductions often become a driving force, as well as the capital value it is to be recognized in the groups where labels of Charitable contributor, carries an added value when making business connections for their private enterprises.
People often don't like such truth to be wide spread... as to the underlying elements within agenda. I am not implying they should not get a tax write of, nor am I denying the good their donation do... but at that level of wealth, simply do it for "humane honorable reasons and virtue to the civility of community, and let the tax concessions come as a grace unto the process, and let the accolades in the business world come, simply because giving back makes the same society they derived their wealth from, become a better society. It matter always what is "motive and intention" within anything and everything we do.
When people speak of God as in being Spiritual in commitment, then let it be pure of heart, and fill the soul and there is no room then for objectives that are not centered.. Then the base premise of doing good, produces and brings good to those who put their heart into doing good.
They become good stewards in how their programs work, that good may be the outcomes.
There's a right way to live and a wrong way to live.... when one claims to be of God's Spiritual Devotion..... PERIOD...
Honor Matters !!!!! yes general society has much chaos, much abuse and much mis-use, but it was not always so.... When jobs were plentiful, people were of a far different demeanor, when incomes matched with the standard of living, things were much different.
But when society goes CRAZY, where a $30K house now cost nearly $500K in some areas. it devalues money!! and people hoard based on bigger numbers, but the buying power has been diminished. Its why for centuries and decades, the cost of housing was stable, and the rate of valuation was with a stable growth factor, that matched with the generalized economy, and people were able to maintain upkeep on their homes, young people could buy homes, and people remained stable longer, because jobs did not pack up and go, chasing slave wage labor in other areas of the country, or running form environmental regulation, and when all such "greed based things" dominated the spectrum... now we have people with high dollar figure claim, but it buys less..... so the equated relation to the high dollar figure net worth, is like fools gold... and what results is its takes a ton of it,to buy what a fraction of an ounce of real gold would purchase.
Man does not know how to stop the madness.. because we choose not to find the means to grasp the discipline that say a nation like China has... where it does not allow its money to float freely.. it manages its valuation, and doing so... they have been able to do what America USED TO DO, but China is able to do it 100 time greater if not 1000 time great in sectors, AND uplift massive numbers of its people.
The factor is ... China has a homogeneous society in generalized image identity, with variations of culture.. where as American can't get over its skin tone and varied image identity of individuals, thus racism and bigotry and bias, make us do self defeat things, that boomerang back and then we get more drastic and think something is going to change, when we are what needs to change... and what of us that needs to change is to move beyond being imbecilic within racist stupidity, that promotes nothing but Insanity. That same insanity has led to economic decline, and currency valuation fictions, that has made our currency buy less. it makes it so bad, until we can't compete even in the arena of exports.. But another factor that hurt out ability to export, is: we became "cheap" and chose to make low grade products, instead of "high grade products"... Post World War I and World War II... American Goods were the preferred good even in countries that had weaker economies, because they knew if they bought American Goods, they were "durable and well made from good quality materials"... They were eager to buy what America Produced.
We gave that up, and chose cheap disposable good and foreign labor to make it, and then time showed us, we could not compete in that arena... and all we did was displace people, destroy industry and weakened the nation and we are too stubborn and too caught up in the same racist madness that sent us down the rabbit hole more than 50+ yrs ago, and we are still too imbecilic to realize, that the rabbit is not in the hole, we are stuck in the hole... and standing around with a wack a mole mentality, at anyone who does not look like the white establishment of the old days. Too antagonistic to see and know that the world has change, and so has life all over the globe... and American can never be the vile place it was when it lost its soul in slavery and indenture. Nor does the nation have the "suck up and chase to mimic the white man mentality anymore", nations are embracing their culture, building their infrastructure, and many foreign nations have out built us and have done so with better use of technology and many use good materials that built for high volume long term usages. Then they build to make their pedestrian areas afford the people cultural leisure. they have high speed rails, improved public transportation system, and they don't saturate their food with long term eventual killer chemicals, many of these nations won't even allow the tainted chemical saturated food goods we make to even be allowed in their country, '"because they respect their people and the health of their people". America we choose greed and greed's promotion, by giving our people chemical induced food and then charging them a fortune for the medical problems it causes them, and fleece them by pushing insurance companies to charge more, to avoid the development and promotion of National Low Coast Health Care. the malice is within the construction of the madness. All for the sake of "greed" !! Even those who craft this madness, can't see they too result to die early from the same things they perpetuate. If we did things fair, honest and right, the wealthy will still gain wealth, but they won't be damaging people, environment, lifestyle and life conditions.... the good they could do, will give them sufficient profit, if greed did not control them to such degree. this mentality has saturated out society at all levels... and we don't know how to turn off the switch.
We stomp around the world talking about Human Rights... when people are still here looking at the faces of other and can't see the heart of the person for the stereotypes about the skin, and making judgments against people, whom its own attitude cast into destitution, then they want to want why the people are angry and why violence rages and why crime is high... but .... they want to blind themselves and claim themselves as being of no responsibility, when fact and details of their own history has demonstrated they are the orchestrators of the system that resulted to product this type of outgrowth... because it was cultivated to do so....
But ... why is strong enough to face such truths and move to honor the God principle they claim, but to be big enough in heart to claim those principles in relation to all others and not just among themselves?
We have to learn how to be better people.... and we have to truly learn the value of what is America and what is truly means and stands for... then we can be the Democracy that we claim to want, and we can have the system of capitalism to be of service to the people that they may through fairness and equity, make better the whole of society... some will be wealth and some will not, all will be able to meet the cost and expense of meeting and enjoying a quality standard of life....
Why people can strive for such lofty goals and embrace such honor in the principles that God long ago laid out that man could achieve such... is because man allows greed to promote him to engage in evil until he finds he loves money, more than he loves God. It matters not what ideological philosophy man enjoins to devote his honor, as long as the base premise is that his honor and love is unto God, as long mans methods respect other man and other mans methods which harms no man, and place no other thing before God..... it really quite simple... when man decides to stop trying to claim such power for and unto himself. and All Glory is to God....
Humanity choose not to teach such simplicity, and thus is find nothing but confounding madness upon and against other man, and ultimately upon and against even himself.
I don't so much mean to be preachy, but we have so much work to do in making ourselves duty bound to respect what we vainly like to publicly claim as being spiritual people who claim to honor and want to honor God... but we struggle with vanity, ego and greed to the point we can't get over ourselves enough to do so.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 06-14-2017 at 05:08 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
