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It shouldn't be that way for anyone. Frankly, I'm amazed at how Americans have put up with being bulldozed by their own government for so long.
A great many feel they just have to tow the partisan line. There was an article in Time about two women who have severly disabled children. One was a staunch, life long Republican (only because she was pro life), the other a Democrat but they bonded over the experience of having a sick child. They are both fighting tooth and nail and protesting against the new bill. The Republican woman promised she will change parties if they pass this bill that will severely hurt her child's chances in life. People view things differently when it's something that actually affects them. Very few peope will get through life without experincing a health issue. the partisan divide is ruining this country, most people just vote for their "team" and don't even think about what they are actually voting for.
The more partisan we get, the more power we give away to government officials and corporate interests. We can change and make this country truly great for everyone but it requires standing together against the power and money who do not have the best interest of average Americans in mind. They only work for the moneyed donors and count on partisan loyalty to continue getting elected. The R woman made a comment about how her party would fight tooth and nail to prevent her from aborting her baby but now that he is born and ill, they don't care about protecting him.
Not sure where in NE you live, but I have family in MA and CT, and I can tell you that their insurance coverage is much cheaper than Florida's. MA, of course has its own Romneycare exchange--not sure about other NE states. The states with idiot governors such as Rick Scott have screwed over their residents in order to childishly spite Obama.
For many people, the only choice is whether to go into debt for health insurance or take a chance and pay cash for services.
In FL, depending on the county, people between the ages of 59 and 64 who make over a certain amount of income per year, pay extremely high premiums before paying the $6,000 deductions. If single, and making over $47k, the lowest premiums run about $900 per month. If a couple and making over $64k, the lowest premiums are $1,500 per month. Prior to the ACA, many of these individuals were rejected for insurance, so couldn't get it anyway. If you were self-employed or a contractor, the insurance companies would use anything to reject coverage (prescriptions inferred diseases, menopause, acid reflux--basically age).
If one pays cash for services, it is much much cheaper than using the insurance and still paying off deductible. Physicians have stated the reason for this is that they spend half of their hours and half of their resources dealing with insurance companies, so charge much less if they do not have to deal with them.
One trend for families in S. FL is to join a 'concierge' physicians' service, priced for the middle and working class, and then buy a cheap policy from one of the religious network sharing programs. It is still cheaper than insurance.
Stop blaming people's inability to buy sky high insurance premiums on 'irresponsibility'.
The problem has been, and is, the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Pharmaceuticals need price controls and the insurance industry should be eliminated as middle man.
For the vast majority of the young and healthy and well off "conservatives" not buying health insurance IS based on irresponsibility and partisan propaganda that equates getting health insurance with treason. If the young and healthy signed up, the cost would decrease dramatically for the older and sicker among us. The mandate works in many countries that use private insurance rather than single payer because the pools include everyone and workable subsidies are offered for those who cannot afford it.
I absolutely agree on the pharmacuetical and insurance industries but in countries where this works, there is tight regulation to prevent price gouging and keep it affordable. I want to see the US have universal coverage and believe that will require working with the insurance industry rather than trying to eliminate them. They just have too much money and power, we have to figure out how to make this actually work. I'm not the enemy, I have spent most of my working life self employed and have been rejected for health insurance, and then when it was finally offered realized that I could not afford it. I wish that on no one. I believe everyone should be covered but in order to make that happen we have to be pragmatic and find a way to do it that the majority in the US will support.
That's the price in a monopolistic Market with hospital monopolies and hospital cartels.
What's the Free Market price?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
A free market can't exist in healthcare.
Yes, it can, since a Free Market is any Market that is unfettered by government interference or monopolistic practices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
And here is why:
"The medical industry exists almost entirely to serve people who have been rendered incapable of representing their own interests in an adversarial transaction. When I need health services I often need them in a way that is quite different from my desire for a good quality television or a fine automobile. As I lie unconscious under a bus, I am in no position to shop for the best provider of ambulance services at the most reasonable price. All personal volition is lost. Whatever happens next, it will not be a market transaction." https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisla.../#107b53cb1147
That's a fallacy called Selective Attention.
53 Million surgeries were out-patient contrasted with only 12.2 Million Emergency Room visits that required hospitalization. Out-patient surgeries are planned in advance, as are the vast majority of in-patient surgeries.
Yes, it can, since a Free Market is any Market that is unfettered by government interference or monopolistic practices.
That's a fallacy called Selective Attention.
53 Million surgeries were out-patient contrasted with only 12.2 Million Emergency Room visits that required hospitalization. Out-patient surgeries are planned in advance, as are the vast majority of in-patient surgeries.
sure..that works great if you are getting lipo on your love handles but try to price shop for surgery for something like tumor removal, no doctor is going to give you a 'quote' because they can only guess at what they are going to find once they cut you open. Or how about heart valve replacement, do you think cardiac surgeons will spend 15 minutes with you at Starbucks negotiating their fee? You know, all free markety just like buying a new car.
For the vast majority of the young and healthy and well off "conservatives" not buying health insurance IS based on irresponsibility and partisan propaganda that equates getting health insurance with treason. If the young and healthy signed up, the cost would decrease dramatically for the older and sicker among us. The mandate works in many countries that use private insurance rather than single payer because the pools include everyone and workable subsidies are offered for those who cannot afford it.
I absolutely agree on the pharmacuetical and insurance industries but in countries where this works, there is tight regulation to prevent price gouging and keep it affordable. I want to see the US have universal coverage and believe that will require working with the insurance industry rather than trying to eliminate them. They just have too much money and power, we have to figure out how to make this actually work. I'm not the enemy, I have spent most of my working life self employed and have been rejected for health insurance, and then when it was finally offered realized that I could not afford it. I wish that on no one. I believe everyone should be covered but in order to make that happen we have to be pragmatic and find a way to do it that the majority in the US will support.
That can NOT work. The companies you expect to do right are publicly traded entities. Wall Street demands a certain return or the stocks plummet.
Aetna was profitable in Pennsylvania but pulled out anyway. Wall Street demanded it, as the profits were not acceptably high enough.
Health care must be completely separated from Wall Street. Money does not buy our votes. We blame money when the fault is not money but with us.
53 Million surgeries were out-patient contrasted with only 12.2 Million Emergency Room visits that required hospitalization. Out-patient surgeries are planned in advance, as are the vast majority of in-patient surgeries.
Talk about selective attention.
The fact that a surgery is out-patient has no relevancy to whether it was reasonably possible for the patient to have shopped around for the best bang for the buck in doctors, staff, or clinic--which was the point being made.
Back in 2001, my mother had an automobile accident--the car rolled three times. She was received by the hospital with "no apparent injuries," but kept overnight. She was unresponsive the next morning, but an MRI showed massive hemorrhaging in her brain (ultimately, she never regained consciousness, but was in a coma for eight years before she finally died).
They did brain surgery that day after the accident, and because they had to leave a section of skull out, they fitted her with a leather helmet that looked exactly like the old-school football leather helmets. I noted at the time that the helmet was stamped on the inside, "Made in South Korea."
I saw what they were charging for that helmet on an interim bill. They charged $2,000 for that helmet. Two thousand dollars.
Now, I've been to South Korea. I've bought leather goods in South Korea. I know that helmet could not have cost the hospital more than $200, including shipping.
Since we were in Oklahoma City, I took pictures of the helmet to a local saddle and bridle shop and asked them how much they'd charge to custom make a helmet like that. They quoted $500...custom made.
Now, for most people, $2,000 is significant coin.
The last time I had insurance work done on my car, I was able to direct the sourcing of the parts. But at what point would I have been able to direct the sourcing of that helmet?
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 07-17-2017 at 05:34 AM..
Please list the nations of the world who have quality, cost-effective healthcare with full population coverage in a purely private market setting.
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Korea, South
Luxembourg
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Slovakia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States (Do you think the Trump family and their ilk don't have good quality private medical care?)
The fact that a surgery is out-patient has no relevancy to whether it was reasonably possible for the patient to have shopped around for the best bang for the buck in doctors, staff, or clinic--which was the point being made.
Very true it's not as if you can shop around, people are not going to switch orthopaedic surgeons or Urologists because they can save 10% on their surgery.
Very true it's not as if you can shop around, people are not going to switch orthopaedic surgeons or Urologists because they can save 10% on their surgery.
And that 10% might still represent significant coin.
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