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Why not try something like looking for skills where there is a demand? Electricians. Machinist. Welder. Carpenter. STEM. Medical field. You know-where people are actually hiring? It isn't that hard-and isn't any different than the 1980s. Except there is more demand for skilled people now with a booming economy. And like then-if you got a useless degree ("Political science" was one of the basket weaving program of those days-sounds a lot like "International Relations"), you better learn to say "do you want fries with that".
Oh my son has a incredible job now in his field with excellent pay and benefits. But it took 3 years because of the recession. And political science is different from international relations. He went to England to get his masters and his dissertation was published because he got top honors. And there is nothing wrong with laborers. My son isn't handy like that and he wanted to use his mind. He got a $10,000 raise after a year he was there. Pretty impressive if you ask me.
You don't have to justify your son's excellent education to someone who clearly doesn't value education -- unless, of course, it directly (and immediately!) brings in the big bucks.
Anti-intellectualism is as strong as it ever was. Perhaps it's even worse.
Millennials have zero clue what tough really is. I heard stories about my much older generation who starved during the great wars....fled their native countries jobless with little hope at the time....tip of the iceberg.
Pff, you guys were able to buy homes back in the 80s working construction jobs, in factories, and other types of manufacturing that no longer exist and which required no college degree debt. How many people do you know these days that can afford a decent home not in a crime ridden area with just a high school degree? Even simple entry level secretary/admin assistant jobs want a bachelors degree with 2-5 years experience just to start making a crappy $34k wage. Many of the best tech, finance, and biomedical/medical jobs available these days are concentrated in large urban centers where home prices easily cost $600k+ for a crappy small row home and can often reach 7 figures if you want a little bit more, meaning a millennial will have to save for nearly 60 years at the typical household income right now just to be able to afford a 20% down payment.
That's the thing, we didn't need "the best", we just worked and lived our lives. I never thought I needed to do better than my parents, they were middle class and we had a nice life.
There ARE decent jobs and affordable decent housing outside of major urban areas, the younger people starting out just don't want them. The kids that DO stay in these areas can buy houses. The fact that they complain they cannot live the same way in San Francisco is laughable.
You use to easily be able to graduate high school in the late 1940s and 1950s and get a solid middle class job in a local factory. That is more difficult to do due to a changing economy.
Also part of the problem is modern culture and what each generation perceived as "needs" have changed.
Think about all of the new expenses from new "needs." We "need" smart phone with a data plan. We "need" to eat out more than past generations. We "need" bigger and fancier homes, flat screen TVs, Blu-Ray, Netflix subscription, blue jeans that cost $100, etc.
We have colleges creating new degrees that aren't conducive to obtaining careers - like degrees in "social justice," "gender studies," "puppetry," etc...
Here are some posts of mine from previous discussions of this issue, edited for relevancy to this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
<snip>
I don't know where you get that idea. We older Boomers started working when the "Greatest Generation" (1910-1924) and the Silents (1925-1945) were still working. In 1971, when most of us Boomers born in the 1940s were new in our careers, Nixon imposed wage and price controls. Then came the oil embargo of 1973. All this time, the war in Vietnam was ongoing. The draft finally ended in 1973, so males born 1955 and later weren't affected. And so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Snort! I believe you're thinking of "The Greatest Generation", not their Boomer kids. I'm an older Boomer. Just as I was getting established in the job market, Nixon threw on wage and price controls in 1971. Then came the "stagflation" of the 70s. The oil embargo and energy crisis of 1973 happened shortly thereafter. Rising mortgage interest rates occurred in the late 70s/early 80s, just as many Boomers were starting to buy their first houses. There was the early 80s recession, the oil bust of the late 1980s, which severely affected Denver. 401Ks replaced pensions for people in the private sector. The early 2000s saw another recession, and then the biggie in 2008 came just as some of us were in the latter days of our careers. I know people who were laid off back then who have never worked again. Etc, etc, etc.
Oh, give me a break! Yes, the Great Recession was the worst economy since the Great Depression. However, it's over, finally!
I graduated from college in 1970. In 1971, Nixon imposed wage and price controls. We dealt with practically out of control inflation back then, and for years thereafter, d/t the VietNam war. And oh yeah, that! Until 1973, there was a military draft for males. Then, in the early 80s, when we were ready to buy our first house, interest rates on mortgages were in the 18% area, again due to inflation. What are they now? As of yesterday, from 3.25% for a 15 year fixed mortgage, to 4.01% for a 30 year fixed. Yeah, we all had it easy. Current Mortgage Interest Rates | Bankrate.com Primary Mortgage Market Survey Archives - 30 Year Fixed Rate Mortgages - Freddie Mac
You know, I'm sorry so many young adults had to deal with the Great Recession. Both of my kids graduated from college in 2009, one from professional (physical therapy) school and one from undergrad. The older one was one of few in her class to get a full time PT job, and that was because she was willing to move from Denver. Many of her friends put together several part time jobs. The younger one worked in a day care center for two years, with her Molecular, Cellular, Developmental Biology degree. But that's life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
^^ I do not watch FOX News, sorry to disappoint. My husband had a low draft number; he had to choose grad school based on who would give him a teaching assistantship.
I just did a wage comparison with 1970 and nursing wages are about double now, adjiusted for inflation. Engineering salaries are about the same. The millennials that I know are working in professional job, including my daughter who worked in day care for two years.
Someone born in 1960 is 55 years old; has another 12-15 years in the workforce and a life expectancy of another 25.3 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
<snip>
The oldest Boomers were born in 1946. They were 24 in 1970. Read this about the economy of the 1970s. 1970s - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "The 1970s were perhaps the worst decade of most industrialized countries' economic performance since the Great Depression. . . . From 1970-1979, however, the average rate was 7.06%, and topped out at 13.29% in December 1979.[5] This period is also known for "stagflation", a phenomenon in which inflation and unemployment steadily increased. It led to double-digit interest rates that rose to unprecedented levels (above 12% per year). The prime rate hit 21.5 in December 1980, the highest in history."
There is a section in that link about the oil crisis of the 1970s as well.
I mentioned Nixon's wage and price controls of 1971. There was gasoline rationing, and long lines at gas stations. By the early 80s, the manufacturing economy went bust; the oldest Boomers were 34 and the youngest were 16. I remember visiting my hometown, a nice suburb of Pittsburgh in 1982. The headline in the Sunday Beaver County Times was the location of various food banks and who qualified for them. (Some were run by unions for their members.) My mom pointed out the houses in our neighborhood that had been for sale for years, their owners either long dead or long moved away to places like Florida and North Carolina in search of jobs, any jobs. Mortgage rates reached a peak in the early 80s as well, just as the older Boomers were starting to buy homes.
The 'Greatest Generation' and the 'Silent Generation' were mostly in charge as manufacturing left for overseas and government debt increased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
<snip>
I think most Boomers encountered recession at some point early in their careers. The oldest Boomers turned 18 in 1964, started graduating from college in ~ 1968.
Dec. 1969-11 month recession
August 1971, Nixon imposes wage and price controls d/t rampant inflation. Was supposed to be 90 days, ended up being 1000 days of various measures.
Nov. 1973-March 1975-16 month recession
Jan.-July 1980-6 month recession
July 1981-Nov. 1982-16 month recession
Youngest boomers just graduating from HS.
In addition, the steel industry collapsed in Pittsburgh in the early 1980s. In the fall of 1982, DH and I made a visit to my parents in the Pittsburgh area. The headline in the SUNDAY PAPER (Beaver County Times) was about where the food banks around the county were located and who could use them. Some were only for members of certain unions, etc.)
I seriously do not believe it is the norm for most boomers to be drowning in debt and on the brink of foreclosure. I'll check your link, but I think you grossly misinterpreted the information. NONE of the Boomers I know are in that situation, and I don't want to hear the usual excuse that my friends must be exceptions to the link.
Boomers risked police brutality to try to end the Viet Nam war. Gimme a break!
I graduated from college in 1970. In 1971, Pres. Nixon imposed wage and price controls. There was a recession in the early 70s. There was an "energy crisis" in about 1973 that increased the price of all oil-based products, e.g. gasoline, electricity, etc. There was the moral morass of Watergate. And so on. As in Texas, Colorado was in deep s*** in the 80s when the oil industry here collapsed. Back in my hometown of Pittsburgh, the steel industry collapsed. Mortgage interest rates were at about 18% in 1982, when we bought our first house.
Please document. I have looked this stuff up in the past. Food and clothing are much cheaper, in constant dollars, than they were in the 70s. Re: clothing, we didn't have all these "made in Bangladesh" clothes we have today. I already explained about gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Are you serious? DH and I are older Boomers, could retire and collect SS but don't want to just yet. Neither of us will get a pension, just our 401Ks.
Waa, waa, waa about "tail-end Boomers". We older Boomers faced Viet Nam (DH chose his grad school based on which college would give him a teaching assistantship; it was not his first choice), Nixon's wage and price controls early in our careers, Reagan's "Morning in America" which was a nightmare for some; the recession of 1987 (Black Monday, October 14, 1987) when DH and I had a three year old and a three month old; skyrocketing housing prices at the same time interest rates were rising when we wanted to buy a house in the early 80s, etc.
Nothing is wrong with living with parents. The issue is the whining. Every generation pays their dues. I'm a boomer and I've never lucked out. I started my adult life during a recession, I couldn't afford to go to college right away so I took a job in a machine shop that cost me the feeling in three fingers, and damaged my hearing. My sense of taste and smell did return within a year of quitting though. Then I went to college on charge cards because I didn't qualify for aid and came out to another recession so people who graduated before me AND people who graduated after me made more money than I did (at one point my employer decided to correct that situation and they gave me a 12% raise but that didn't make up for the years I made less). After 17 years I got downsize out of my job in another recession and changed careers to teaching making less than 50% of what I had been making....just as teacher pay was freezing/being cut for 10 years. I got laid off my job last year and now have to start over at the bottom rung so I'm taking a job making 20% less than I made last year. Yes, I find it irritating when millennials say they have it harder than us baby boomers. I would much rather be a millennial starting out today than a baby boomer who got downsized out of their job in their 50's and never found work again (I know several of those). EVERY generation has their struggles and pays their dues. They are not being picked on.
It's not living at home or difficulty finding jobs that are the issue, It's whining that they have it so much tougher than everyone else. Just who do they think had it easy? Not me or any of the people I know. We've all had our struggles and many are still struggling. When I registered with one job placement agency this summer the recruiter said "At least you've been teaching for the past 9 years. You wouldn't believe how many engineers have NOTHING on their resumes since being let go in 2008." Seriously, if you think millennials have it bad try being over 40 and out of work when your parents are dead so there's no moving back home. They are by no means the only ones hurting. I think older workers who have lost careers are MUCH MUCH worse off than millennials who are struggling to start careers.
FTR I think living at home until you are financially stable is a smart move. I don't understand the rush to move out and accumulate debt. I think multi generational families would be more stable and it would be easier to accumulate wealth. Our culture says move out though. If dd#2 needs to live at home until she's 30 I'm good with that. I've already told her I'm moving in with her when I'm old.
Agreed!
To the person who said wages haven't increased since 1973, that's a crock of compost! In 1973, I was making about $4/hr. Now, a nurse with a few years experience makes at least $25/hr, usually more.
You use to easily be able to graduate high school in the late 1940s and 1950s and get a solid middle class job in a local factory. That is more difficult to do due to a changing economy.
Also part of the problem is modern culture and what each generation perceived as "needs" have changed.
Think about all of the new expenses from new "needs." We "need" smart phone with a data plan. We "need" to eat out more than past generations. We "need" bigger and fancier homes, flat screen TVs, Blu-Ray, Netflix subscription, blue jeans that cost $100, etc.
We have colleges creating new degrees that aren't conducive to obtaining careers - like degrees in "social justice," "gender studies," "puppetry," etc...
There is a lot of truth to that. My father was a skilled tradesman at the local GM plant (machinist) and made a good wage. He was older, in his 40s when I was born. We lived in a little house, maybe 1200 SF. Most of my life we had one car in the family. One telephone in the house...and it was mounted on the wall. One TV for the family...and I was the remote. A meal out was a rarity, and usually fast food. I remember when KFC was a real treat for the family. If we kids wanted to go somewhere-we rode our bikes-our parents didn't haul us around everywhere and feel that they had so spend hundreds or thousands on sports or other entertainment events for us. If we wanted a car in HS...we got jobs and worked for them. And learned how to fix them. Yes, expectations ARE different these days!
Did boomers have it easy....uh yea we all know they did. Millenials are whining, asking for socialism and any freebies they can get because life has not been fair to them. They feel entitled to endless electronic gizmos, free healthcare, free college and a top job when they are done with that free college. They also expect PC and social justice enforced on those older people who are the unenlightened deplorables. Just because the boomers had it easy does not mean this crybaby generation is entitled to any of this. The boomers got lucky because of a decades long post war boom, thier good luck was the result of a unique economic situation that will not happen again.
My generation (gen x) has not had it easy. We came of age during a recession, our adult lives have existed during a lot of economic trouble. We worked inferior jobs to boomers for decades, learned to be frugal, what little we built over decades of eking out an existence was threatened by the crash of 08. We are deep into middle age and have never achieved what the boomers did. You never saw our generation rioting or calling upon the government to give free stuff to us. We take care of ourselves. Many gen Xers have a not so good attitude toward millenials, we are tired of thier whining, tired of thier un-American protests and calls to restrict free speech, tired of thier sick twisted social values, immorality, and sick of thier calls for socialism. Did you kids not learn what America is about? Both republicans and democrats of the past would be appalled by thier attitudes and values.
When millenials do get jobs these kids are less than great employees. They show up thier first day telling 20 year veterans how to do thier job. They call in...A lot. They work only as hard as they have to in order to get by. They have nose in smartphones while on the job. Most of our boomer friends have retired or are about too, we gen Xers are the ones that actually have to deal with these snowflakes. I never hear anyone say how hard working thier millenial coworkers are.
Millenials are going to be a curse to this nation. These protests, riots and destruction of historic monuments is just the beginning. They are fixin to remake this nation into a SJWs version of a socialist utopia. By 2020 they will have the numbers to sweep elections and control the nation. They will implement thier values. They are a threat to prosperity, traditional values, safety and security, freedom and liberty and even a threat to the union itself.
There are too many of them, I fear they will destroy everything that has taken 241 years to build.
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