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I remember Usenet. Does it still exist?
I used to be on alt.smokers.cigars and alt.smokers.pipes.
There was an alt group for any and all interests/perversions under the sun.
I never heard any credible source say that the entire protest in Charlottesville was ONLY Nazis. That is a dubious claim.
Much like marching alongside Nazis and White Supremacists can paint a cause as dubious. I also have not heard any participating monument "historians" denounce the Nazis and white supremacists for hijacking their cause. Funny!
No matter what your cause is, if you tolerate Nazis and White Supremacists, that cause is forever tainted. Someone probably should have thought that one through.
The whole mainstream media did just that. You are just making an anti-free speech, and guilt by association argument. There were bad people on the other side. Hypocrisy?
I just don't understand the whole statue thing, I know in London you have statues to all kinds of people, with a statues of everyone from Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Karl Marx through to George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, John Wilkes, Churchill etc as well as numerous Kings and Queens from Boudica Warrior Queen of the Iceni tribe right through George VI and Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The situation in the US is just getting out of hand, indeed you can always find some reason for attacking someones statue, but as far as I am concerned it's all living history and should not be forgotten. Taking down statues is pretty much right up there with burning books and mass censorship or the Government determining such things as art and culture. Perhaps there may be a case for some Civil War memorabila connected to white nationalism to be moved, but to go on to suggest great leaders and US founding fathers such Washington and Jefferson be written out of history and to remove their statues is simply ridiculous.
As a rather humerous example, we have a statue of Paddington Bear at Paddington Station in London, although some liberals rather than just enjoying the fun have claimed the stories are racist talking of darket Peru and that they are to do with Imperialism, and they have also attacked Alice in Wonderland (better take down the statue in NYC Central Park) and numerous other such stories and indeed Hollywood films.
Honestly these people are often just warped in the head, have no sense of humour and must drink a pint of vinegar every morning. It's the constant blame culture and apparant lack of embracing free thought and debate that had appeared in some societies and especially in Universities that it is quite disturbing. It is this lack of proper thought and debate that leads to what is happening in the US, where nobody dare speak out for fear of being labelled a racist or white nationalist, and because of this the situation has now become not one of free thought and open debate but of political extremes both right and left.
By the way - before we hit Washington & Jefferson... can we get to renaming the 50+ Robert Byrd buildings in West Virginia first? We are talking certified KKK here...
But, but, but, but..... Byrd was a democrat. We can't do that!!!!
Great post, BNW. I hope the UK can maintain respect for its own history, but I fear the potential is there for a real Chinese style (American style?) purge given the Britain was the biggest colonial power and post-colonialist dogma rules the day.
Great post, BNW. I hope the UK can maintain respect for its own history, but I fear the potential is there for a real Chinese style (American style?) purge given the Britain was the biggest colonial power and post-colonialist dogma rules the day.
I don't think statues are really attatched to white nationalism in the UK and although there are people who were involved in the slave trade, the British consensus is that informed debate and remembering and learning from history is better than trying to detroy it.
One of the most striking and powerful memorials in Britain, is the original Coventry Cathedral, which was left in ruins in order that no one forget what the Nazis did. Why not do the same with slavery leave the statues, in order that no one forget, and that we learn fron history rather than eradicate it.
You realy have to just use some common sense, for instance, James Penny was a merchant, slave ship owner and prominent anti-abolitionist in Liverpool, so does that mean we erradicate the name Penny Lane, even though slavery was nothing to do with the Beatles song.
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