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There's nothing systemic about a few anecdotal examples. When you actually look at the numbers (i.e. tens of millions of police interactions in this country each year vs. a relative few charges of police abuse), the argument falls flat.
Having written that, yes, even once case of police brutality--whether racially charged or not--is one case too many. That said, such a number would not be evidence/proof of a systemic problem.
What a loony (albeit all too typical) left-wing response. What police officers are killing people because their black?
On the issue of police killing versus blacks killing black citizens.
I'd ask why you all focus on that when they are two different things. It is not a "loony left wing" idea that police killing people and not being punished at all, just because they are "afraid" is the same thing as a black person killing another black person. They too, probably are "afraid" but black dude will go to prison. Officer won't. That is the difference. Police have a license to harrass, abuse, and kill people due to the authority they hold over society. Anyone who brings up murder in a discussion about police abuse, IMO is silly because they are two different subjects - either silly, or they don't have any valid defense for police abuse/harrassment/murderers not being punished and don't want to admit that. And FWIW I know may right wing people who also don't agree that police should be able to abuse the public with no recourse so this is not a left/right issue to me.
You made the claim. Back it up! What is leftist dribble are outlandish claims like yours without any convincing supporting evidence. Yet, we should somehow just "get it" as many with your ideology claim.
Oh, you think I actually believe you don't get it. Fail.
On the issue of police killing versus blacks killing black citizens.
I'd ask why you all focus on that when they are two different things. It is not a "loony left wing" idea that police killing people and not being punished at all, just because they are "afraid" is the same thing as a black person killing another black person. They too, probably are "afraid" but black dude will go to prison. Officer won't. That is the difference. Police have a license to harrass, abuse, and kill people due to the authority they hold over society. Anyone who brings up murder in a discussion about police abuse, IMO is silly because they are two different subjects - either silly, or they don't have any valid defense for police abuse/harrassment/murderers not being punished and don't want to admit that. And FWIW I know may right wing people who also don't agree that police should be able to abuse the public with no recourse so this is not a left/right issue to me.
I stated earlier that the majority of homicides in this country, including ones committed by black people are domestic in nature or gang related....
In both cases, police cannot stop the murder. Do you think they can? IMO there is nothing police can do to stop 95% of murders that occur in this country. So debating about murder is stupid to me.
On gangs, you didn't have Vice Lords or Gangster Disciples in Brooklyn? I'm from the Midwest and they and along with some offshoots of bloods and crips were in the Midwest. We have a LOT of gangs unfortunately and gangbanging did not decrease due to only police activity. It decreased due to social services and community non-profit groups who took former gang bangers in neighborhoods and met with current bangers to get them to stop violence. I'm sure you had something similar occur in Brooklyn back in the day. Concerned citizens are ALWAYS the main force behind a decrease in crime. Police need to work with communities. Thinking that officers can actually decrease gang activity by themselves IMO is ridiculous. Especially "aggressive" policing. That only serves to drive a wedge between police and residents. Residents are criminalized so they do not want to assist LE in any way as a result since LE is untrustworthy. How old are you? You seem to be taking a revisionist view of history. Also ignoring the fact that across the country there are thousands of organizations in black neighborhoods that work to decrease crime. They seek out LE to work with them. Sometimes, in some areas LE doesn't work with those groups, sometimes they do. When they do, and they build a relationship with those neighborhood residents, crime will decrease because the residents will trust LE and provide them with information to curtail crime.
And you are overlooking what I stated in this regard - people in neighborhoods view the police as a gang.
Do you deny this? Do you believe that neighborhoods where gangs are located, that the residents on a daily basis will be more afraid to see a gang banger or a police officer? I think they would be more afraid of the police officer. Police have guns all the time. Gang bangers might not. Police can kill you and get away with it. If a gang member kills you, they will go to prison. That is the difference. Police have a license to kill. They are basically a legal gang and people in poor neighborhoods are oftentimes more afraid of them and feel more oppressed by them than a street gang.
They stop many homicides by getting bad people (i.e. drug dealers and gang-bangers) who would be more prone to commit homicides off the streets! Through aggressive policing/zero tolerance tactics, the police were even more successful than usual in getting such people/weapons off the streets. Hence the huge drop in number of homicides in places like NYC since such tactics were implemented. NO, the police won't/can't stop every homicide/violent crime, but that's not the argument I'm making.
No, we didn't have those gangs in my area of Brooklyn, though we did have gangs other than the bloods and crips, which also brought about death and destruction to the area. Concerned citizenry will certainly help bring about a decrease in gang activity (of course, you have to have enough citizens willing to work with the police/testify in court for the prosecution to really make a difference in that regard . . . but all the anti-politic rhetoric--much of it that doesn't have a basis in fact--makes such coordination efforts all the more difficult), but they can't do it alone (not that you claimed otherwise). If so, homicides in Chicago, etc., wouldn't continue to increase.
Sure, some people view the police as a gang. But such people are misguided in my view, buying into exaggerated narratives about policing in general that have no basis in fact. An anecdotal example (but one that I think is pretty telling): during the whole Michael Brown situation (and, note, the evidence/witnesses, including black and white witnesses, backed up the police officer's version of events in that case), the NAACP hosted a summit. During the summit, a young black male from Detroit got up and stated that the police were the greatest threat to his live in Detroit Sadly, far too many are buying into the BS and actually believe this crap, despite the fact that the numbers in no such way support such dribble.
As for your closing statement, no gang-bangers may not have guns all the time. But, again, gang-bangers kill MANY, MANY more people in this country every year than police do, despite there being FAR fewer gang-bangers than police officers and despite there being tens of millions of police-citizen interactions every year. Many of these "fears" are greatly misplaced/irrational/not supported by the great weight of the evidence.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 09-28-2017 at 01:13 PM..
You made the claim. Back it up! What is leftist dribble are outlandish claims like yours without any convincing supporting evidence. Yet, we should somehow just "get it" as many with your ideology claim.
lol..."leftist dribble". That just sounds like you have intellectual constipation and can only produce gas as opposed to a tenable brain movement.
On the issue of police killing versus blacks killing black citizens.
I'd ask why you all focus on that when they are two different things. It is not a "loony left wing" idea that police killing people and not being punished at all, just because they are "afraid" is the same thing as a black person killing another black person. They too, probably are "afraid" but black dude will go to prison. Officer won't. That is the difference. Police have a license to harrass, abuse, and kill people due to the authority they hold over society. Anyone who brings up murder in a discussion about police abuse, IMO is silly because they are two different subjects - either silly, or they don't have any valid defense for police abuse/harrassment/murderers not being punished and don't want to admit that. And FWIW I know may right wing people who also don't agree that police should be able to abuse the public with no recourse so this is not a left/right issue to me.
Because the narrative going around is that "black lives matter." If black lives truly matter, I expect more calls to action/civil disobedience against those things that cause the GREATEST threat to black lives in this country. By a simple body count, this greatest threat is in no way, shape or form the police. Far from it. Yes, I understand that the BLM movement is meant to address supposed wrongs by the "system" against black people, but this is misplaced IMO when such groups are essentially ignoring the real problem facing black lives in this country today. And, again, its not police officers.
But, let's get real: the argument goes beyond police and focuses on white folks, whether white police officers or "white Hispanic" neighborhood watch captains like George Zimmerman. But, I ask why do black lives only seem to matter or matter most when they are taken by someone white?
Moving on, yes there is an inherent difference in the power that a police officer has over our lives vs. that of a gang-banger. But that works both ways. Police have the law behind them--which can and which is undoubtedly abused . . . we just disagree on the extent--but police officers also take oaths to uphold the law, which gang-bangers do not. Still, the onus is on you and others like you to provide evidence to back up your claims of systemic police brutality/targeting of people along racial lines. Of course, such evidence is non-existent.
On the overall point, though, I agree with you. Police should NOT be allowed to abuse their power and brutalize anybody. And its not just black people who deal with such behavior among what I call a "few" police officers ("few" compared to the overwhelming majority of police officers for who seem to be doing their jobs professionally). That said, what I reject are claims/narratives that exagerrate the extent of the problem or that try to assign racial motivations to certain actions where the evidence does not support such. Trust me, if groups like #BLM and others like them focused on the need for police reform in general--rather than assigning racial motivations to police actions without evidence to back it up (note, such accusations are almost always painted in a white vs. black format), they'd gain more traction.
lol..."leftist dribble". That just sounds like you have intellectual constipation and can only produce gas as opposed to a tenable brain movement.
Ah, so another leftist who can't provide support to ridiculous claims (i.e. leftist dribble) that police are systematically targeting black people Do better.
They stop many homicides by getting bad people (i.e. drug dealers and gang-bangers) who would be more prone to commit homicides off the streets! Through aggressive policing/zero tolerance tactics, the police were even more successful than usual in getting such people/weapons off the streets. Hence the huge drop in number of homicides in places like NYC since such tactics were implemented. NO, the police won't/can't stop every homicide/violent crime, but that's not the argument I'm making.
No, we didn't have those gangs in my area of Brooklyn, though we did have gangs other than the bloods and crips, which also brought about death and destruction to the area. Concerned citizenry will certainly help bring about a decrease in gang activity (of course, you have to have enough citizens willing to work with the police/testify in court for the prosecution to really make a difference in that regard . . . but all the anti-politic rhetoric--much of it that doesn't have a basis in fact--makes such coordination efforts all the more difficult), but they can't do it alone (not that you claimed otherwise). If so, homicides in Chicago, etc., wouldn't continue to increase.
Sure, some people view the police as a gang. But such people are misguided in my view, buying into exaggerated narratives about policing in general that have no basis in fact. An anecdotal example (but one that I think is pretty telling): during the whole Michael Brown situation (and, note, the evidence/witnesses, including black and white witnesses, backed up the police officer's version of events in that case), the NAACP hosted a summit. During the summit, a young black male from Detroit got up and stated that the police were the greatest threat to his live in Detroit Sadly, far too many are buying into the BS and actually believe this crap, despite the fact that the numbers in no such way support such dribble.
As for your closing statement, no gang-bangers may not have guns all the time. But, again, gang-bangers kill MANY, MANY more people in this country every year than police do, despite their being FAR fewer gang-bangers than police officers and despite their being tens of millions of police-citizen interactions every year. Many of these "fears" are greatly misplaced/irrational/not supported by the great weight of the evidence.
So you think all drug dealers are potential murders....lol Sorry but that does make me laugh. I knew quite a few white drug dealing dudes in college who I bet were never "aggressively policed" and who have never killed anyone.
And your speaking of aggressive police tactics making murder decrease is not true. Crime fell worldwide between the 1990s and today even in places without the same tactics that NYC used. And even before stop and frisk was introduced violent crime was falling in NYC. Many attribute it to the entire world banning the used of leaded (meaning lead in) gasoline - lead poisoning of children makes them more violent and the decreases saw in this country in violence were repeated worldwide during the 1990s to early 2000s. You are giving police way too much credit. I know they have a difficult job and I don't hate police. I've been one of those residents helping police to curtail crime. They cannot do it without the residents. They wouldn't know who to target without the residents telling them or tipping them off. We used to give police addresses where drug dealers or criminals or gang bangers lived. They wouldn't have that info without the community.
You may have a blind support and put all your trust in them but I know they are ineffective without the people's help. And again, murder cannot be stopped by police. Most in this country are caused by "personal conflicts" including in black neighborhoods and not even gangs anymore. Gangs have dramatically decreased. Today people just have a beef with someone and they will escalate an argument and shoot/kill someone over a disagreement. That is the biggest cause of homicide. Police cannot remedy those disagreements but someone in a community organization oftentimes can do that.
I don't "get it" because what folks like you claims there is to "get" is not supported by the great weight of the evidence.
Like you care about evidence.
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Sadly, far too many are buying into the BS and actually believe this crap, despite the fact that the numbers in no such way support such dribble. 
