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Old 10-26-2017, 01:48 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,557,772 times
Reputation: 8094

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No one expects them to die. Their health, however, is their own responsibility. If they can't manage it, buy health insurance or get it as part of employment compensation, or self-pay for medical care, that's no one's fault but their own.

No one owes anyone else anything merely because they exist, with the exception of parents' responsibility for their own children.
It’s also their parents’ responsibility.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
Reputation: 8828
Disparity in the funding of governments is inherently unequal. Some will pay more than others. It is inherent in the distribution of income. Some have more than others. Even VAT or other flat taxes are the same - various individuals will provide more money to the government than others.

So basically the Libertarian cause is lost. Every proposal will differentiate the payments made by the individual. We are simply arguing over what mechanism to use.

Practically the US is going to rely on the income and business taxes. They may modify the details but it will remain the source of revenue and will be somewhat progressive.

The language of the Constitution is easily wide enough to allow any number of things to be provided by the Federal Government. Attempts to read the Constitution narrowly will continue to fail. It may well be that the Trump administration shifts the balance of taxes from the rich to the middle. But if that goes as likely it will swing back with a vengeance in 2020 or so.

the eventual approach will likely be a guaranteed minimum income. That stops a lot of the nonsense and removes the need for much of the government structure. Basically the whole welfare system is gone...all simply get a monthly check. And it is paid for by the same old stuff, Income tax, business taxes, maybe a VAT. The health care thing is easily solved in that context.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
No, abhorrent is you expecting other people to give you money just because you exist. Worse, if they don't, you would take their money by violence.

Few things in the world are worse than this.

Not meant to be a personal attack, but it takes a horrible horrible human being to even remotely think this way.
That means you think that over half the country are "horrible human beings" then I guess. Nothing I can do about that
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, that implies that way too many people think they're entitled to a better lifestyle than they earn.
So only the upper third of workers are supposed to be able to afford their own residence? I always thought being able to afford your own place made you middle class, not upper class...
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:22 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,978 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
So only the upper third of workers are supposed to be able to afford their own residence?
There's no reason to believe that whatsoever.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There's no reason to believe that whatsoever.
You stated that someone making $14/hr at 40 hrs/week does not earn enough for their own residence, and I countered that that is the 50th percentile/median for wage earners in this country, so I stand by my statement
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:54 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,557,772 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
That means you think that over half the country are "horrible human beings" then I guess. Nothing I can do about that
Anybody who support this socialist/communist idea are truly horrible human beings.

They are the human garbage worse than Nazis.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,978 posts, read 44,788,307 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
You stated that someone making $14/hr at 40 hrs/week does not earn enough for their own residence
If they live beyond their means, no, they can't.

Quote:
and I countered that that is the 50th percentile/median for wage earners in this country
$28,000/year is not the 50th percentile income. According to the IRS, it's $38,000. And that's AFTER exemptions and deductions.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If they live beyond their means, no, they can't.

$28,000/year is not the 50th percentile income. According to the IRS, it's $38,000. And that's AFTER exemptions and deductions.
$14/hr is $29,040, not $28,000 for starters, and second, I highly doubt that the median earner is getting $18.27/hr nationwide
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,938,853 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Anybody who support this socialist/communist idea are truly horrible human beings.

They are the human garbage worse than Nazis.
Lets see wanting to have Universal Healthcare and some moderate reforms or wanting to kill anyone who isn't white yea socialists are sooooo much worse than nazis. What a brilliant point lifeexplorer.
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