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A: If you were really against taxes, you'd leave society and live in the woods somewhere. You're a hypocrite.
B: No, because I want voluntary alternatives and the state outlaws competition, so your only option is the government good/service which is currently funded by taxes.
A: Well you're free to move, but you're still here. Seems like you really like taxes to me.
B: The responsibility is on YOU to stop taking my money and preventing others from offering their services for me to use. I'm not leaving my entire life behind.
A: Easy for you to say living in the comfort of our society, but you'd change your tune if you actually had to live in your taxless utopia.
B: Wanna bet? Leave us alone and we'll try it out.
A: No, it doesn't work that way.
B: ...alright, I'm going to talk to someone with an IQ above 90. Bye.
A: If you were really against taxes, you'd leave society and live in the woods somewhere. You're a hypocrite.
B: No, because I want voluntary alternatives and the state outlaws competition, so your only option is the government good/service which is currently funded by taxes.
A: Well you're free to move, but you're still here. Seems like you really like taxes to me.
B: The responsibility is on YOU to stop taking my money and preventing others from offering their services for me to use. I'm not leaving my entire life behind.
A: Easy for you to say living in the comfort of our society, but you'd change your tune if you actually had to live in your taxless utopia.
B: Wanna bet? Leave us alone and we'll try it out.
A: No, it doesn't work that way.
B: ...alright, I'm going to talk to someone with an IQ above 90. Bye.
Ah, you may be correct.
Property taxes are non-negotiable. I've stated many times on this board that I know of two families living off-grid who are down to one statist chore: bi-annual property taxes (which forces them to use the government's currency).
In any event Kaczynski paid his property taxes for most of his duration in the Montana wilderness. It was only in the recent years prior to his arrest that he began not to pay. He lived there for nearly a quarter of a century and was only behind a little over $100 on the property tax bill when they caught him. And that included penalties and interest.
He once famously told a person in town that he needed $200 a year to live on...AFTER HE PAID HIS PROPERTY TAXES.
Had the bill increased and the penalties started to add up even more he would have received a knock on his door sooner than later.
Not even sure why we are talking about Kaczynski though. He is/was a violent thug who violated the non-aggression principle by blowing people up.
He sure as hell has more in common with the poster who brought him up rather than me on that front.
Anarchists don't kill people. Statists do...or at least condone it.
A: If you were really against taxes, you'd leave society and live in the woods somewhere. You're a hypocrite.
Nope. I do not care where a person chooses to live.
Quote:
B: No, because I want voluntary alternatives and the state outlaws competition, so your only option is the government good/service which is currently funded by taxes.
The problem is no one ever comes up with valid voluntary alternatives. No one is going to send the local private prison a monthly check. Certainly not enough to make it viable.
I've condemned the Cleveland School system for years over their corruption. I thought the charter schools they opened would be great. Nope. Corrupt.
Quote:
A: Well you're free to move, but you're still here. Seems like you really like taxes to me.
B: The responsibility is on YOU to stop taking my money and preventing others from offering their services for me to use. I'm not leaving my entire life behind.
A: Easy for you to say living in the comfort of our society, but you'd change your tune if you actually had to live in your taxless utopia.
B: Wanna bet? Leave us alone and we'll try it out.
A: No, it doesn't work that way.
B: ...alright, I'm going to talk to someone with an IQ above 90. Bye.
No you wouldn't. No one is going back to 19th century America no matter how much you pretend you would.
Nope. I do not care where a person chooses to live.
The problem is no one ever comes up with valid voluntary alternatives. No one is going to send the local private prison a monthly check. Certainly not enough to make it viable.
I've condemned the Cleveland School system for years over their corruption. I thought the charter schools they opened would be great. Nope. Corrupt.
No you wouldn't. No one is going back to 19th century America no matter how much you pretend you would.
I just said I know two families off-grid.
Ever see someone make their own soap by candlelight?
I have.
And "valid voluntary alternatives" are stymied by the State via regulation and/or monopoly.
Try building a fence with your neighbor on your property lines outside of code or selling unpasteurized milk to your neighbor. Both are voluntary exchanges that will result with an AK-47 in your face.
If a group of folks voluntarily set up a private prison they would send in their payments or face a contractual breach resulting in penalties because folks would see to that.
And of course charter schools in Cleveland (all of Ohio) suck. They were a crony capitalist scheme from the very beginning where tax dollars were floated over with no accountability.
He stands on the position of when they do something stupid and fail they go under.
The positions are not that simple. The problem was less the lack of regulations, the problem was sticking the tax payers withe the bill when it all went bad. Now you can argue you would prefer things not go bad, and that's not a bad position to take. The only problem is you have to be principled in that position.
This all went down under Clinton. No, he did NOT act alone but if he had been able to run for a third term, those now complaining would have re-elected him. Hillary was going to do nothing about the problem. Many of those complaining voted for her.
I would rather do nothing and let the chips fall where they may as opposed to continually do the wrong thing. I'm good with regulations but the problem is the massive hypocrisy. We could have re-instituted Glass-Steagal. I would have been fine with that. Instead we did Dodd/Frank which helped kill off many small banks and institutionalized too big to fail.
Agree the "the positions are not that simple". Particularly when a position has few or none examples in past history anywhere to assess or predict future performance &/or real-world behavior.
& particularly when much of past history everywhere presents a myriad of examples to assess or predict the likelihood of many or all of the 'theoreticals & hypotheticals'.
Simply put, there are flaws in the dogma. Fr'instance, consider 'in actual performance' data &/or real-world behaviors, when individuals or groups of like-minded individuals acting solely in their own self-interests have succeeded in making things better for everyone when history shows exactly the opposite is true.
You've asserted Mr. Paul "stands on the position of when they do something stupid and fail they go under" without considering his take on the common sense protections put in place as corrective measures based on recommendation made by Mr. Pecora's investigations into the root or underlying causes of the Great Depression.
Consider the Savings & Loan "scandals" of the 1980s. Considered 'scandalous' back then, & would likely be justified or normalized today by using the dogma asserting 'concerted efforts of those individuals acting solely in their own best interests make things better for everyone'.
Consider also the more recent global financial imbroglios largely created by 'concerted efforts of individuals acting solely in their own best interests making things better for everyone':
The concerted efforts of lobbyists acting solely on behalf of the FIRE sector's best interests, along with their ideologically impaired legislative lapdogs created the environment. Each actor in the 'chain' was acting solely in their own best interest without considering the impact on interconnected global systems. Without considering the impact on the peoples' best & common interests ~ a long term, sustainable, healthy & functional economy. Consider the real-world behavior of the FIRE sector alone to begin with: Financial institutions acting solely in their own best interests, Insurance organizations behaving solely in their own best interests, Real Estate organizations acting solely in their own best interests, & so on.
The ideology is the 'blind spot'. The willful & determined effort to 'not see' the flaws in the dogmatic ideology is an 'accident waiting to happen'.
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