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Plus, there actually are people who tend not to break laws with such heavy penalties, so that'll decrease those types of incidents, generally speaking.
We already have the heaviest penalty of all: capital punishment. It doesn't seem to have any real effect on murders and it would have an even smaller effect on spree killers and other terrorists who try to cause mass casualties, since they typically plan to either shoot themselves or go down in a hail of police gunfire.
He lied on his 4473 and the NICS check should have denied the purchase or at come back at least with a hold. Someone or some computer screwed up royally.
Form 4473 question G.
He did not have a dishonorable discharge. He had a bad conduct discharge. Two different things, but his domestic violence conviction should have prevented him from passing a background check.
Probably another one of millions who doesn't know the Swiss militia aren't allowed to keep ammo at home (it's at an armory) - and each and every bullet is carefully serialized and counted.
It's really strange how the right points to complete opposite examples as if "this is the way things should be". OK - you can all have nice rifles. But no ammo. The ammo is locked tight at an armory 10 miles away and you can only use it (and each bullet checked and counted) during drill.
He was PROHIIBTED to possess firearms due to his domestic violence, and dishonorable discharge. The BACKGROUND check he went through failed to pick those up for whatever reason, but this guy was not legally allowed to purchase, nor possess a firearm. The system failed for whatever reason.
Maybe NO ONE should be allowed to purchase guns except for a very few who have a true need for them and are able to pass a very stringent test. Again, maybe we need to be like other civilized countries. Countries in which people don't walk the streets with guns. Police have guns. The military has guns.
Of the rest who have guns, some legitimate reasons are for hunting or the hobby of target shooting. Stringent tests for them though.
Men who think they "need" guns for protection are all too often either paranoid and afraid or they are unsure of their masculinity. There are plenty of real men in other countries who are sure enough of themselves that they don't need guns to prove it.
Yipee? Why in the world would you be cheering with 26 people dead? If it is sarcasm, it is completely missed and inappropriate.
What do we have left but sarcasm at this point?
The gun lovers won't hear of anything that remotely curtails the rights of even the mentally ill to own guns. One of Trump's first actions was to remove that one small and common sense restriction installed by the Obama administration, and he did it to placate the gun lovers' need for complete and unrestricted access by everyone to anything they want.
Then they come at us with the asinine "good guy with a gun" nonsense. 26 people are dead. It rings hollow.
We are at their mercy in this country. Sorry if sarcasm about this fact offends you, but your offence is misplaced. You should be offended by the mentally ill having free and clear access to guns. And that's just for starters.
He did not have a dishonorable discharge. He had a bad conduct discharge. Two different things, but his domestic violence conviction should have prevented him from passing a background check.
Was shooting up the church bad conduct or dishonorable?
IMHO, it's the combination of the factors....heck, even take being cruel to animals into consideration (even tho the charge was dropped). What kind of monster was this guy? Did he enjoy shooting animals not to kill them and then having fun until they died?
We're not talking a guy here who should have barely not passed....we're talking a guy who probably should have been locked up and on heavy meds.
If people are angry, crazy, mentally ill, all of they above, they will find a way to get their hands on whatever they want, including guns, and commit whatever carnage they want. Mental health checks on all gun owners, every year, they fail, lobotomy, they can sit in their rocking chair, staring at the wall, like a vegetable!
What? Building a wall or putting restrictions on travel won't stop them???
I guess it gets down to since guns are already in the environment the thought is next generation should have access to a gun. So that down the line another neighbor might be able to step up even if he was not accepted into a police force before the incident. For all we know without intervention the killer would have gone back to shoot the 20 wounded in the head or moved on to the next church down the street before the police knew who they were to chase after.
He did not have a dishonorable discharge. He had a bad conduct discharge. Two different things, but his domestic violence conviction should have prevented him from passing a background check.
Forget the G part then. He still lied further up and down the form and should not have passed the NICS check so we are in agreement.
Last edited by redwood66; 11-06-2017 at 08:14 AM..
I guess it gets down to since guns are already in the environment the thought is next generation should have access to a gun. So that down the line another neighbor might be able to step up even if he was not accepted into a police force before the incident. For all we know without intervention the killer would have gone back to shoot the 20 wounded in the head or moved on to the next church down the street before the police knew who they were to chase after.
The killer drove off. In other words, the "good guy with a gun" did not "stop the bad guy with a gun." It wasn't until the shooter rolled his vehicle that he shot himself. Seems as if the bad guy with a gun is who ultimately stops a bad guy with a gun.
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