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I guess I understand now why gun nuts have to post 60% of the OPs on here - they don't believe in statistics, reality, experience or common sense.
As has been made clear, states and regions (the Northeast, for example) have 1/2, 1/4 or even 1/10th the violent crime as the worst regions (the South - and some parts of the West)....
Texas has 300% more violence (largely gun) than MA. Why? Are people from Texas natural born killers? Are they wife beaters and child abusers in bulk compared to others?
Well - truth is THEY ARE "Texas is ranked second in the nation for domestic violence incidents"
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't really care, but the fact is that I can own most any kind of firearm in my state that is capable of doing anything a weapon is for. I can own a whole stock of them if I want. But we also have strict laws...and we also have low violence.
So when ANYONE says gun laws don't work - they are repeating a falsehood.....also called lies.
The simple fact - which any reasonable person would conclude - is that Texas likes those little extra gun "rights" (like no background checks at gun shows, no limits on anything, etc.) better than they like the human beings who live there. It's a simple choice. More people alive....or 50 guns with large mags and bump stocks instead of just 10 or 20 with stock mags and some basic background and other checks.
You choose. But you also lose a lot of good people.
You're trying to lump all of the northeastern states together for your argument in favor of gun control, yet three of the New England states (VT, NH, ME) have next to no gun laws and lower crime rates than the other northeastern states. I'll go out on a limb here and say if you took away the gun laws in MA or CT or RI or NY and replaced them with Vermont's laws, you would not see a significant change or any change in the crime rate. The gun laws are irrelevant, they do not stop crime. There's other reasons for higher crime rates in states like TX (stricter laws than VT/NH/ME) or CA (which has strict laws) or IL (which has strict laws).
Conservatives know that giving government ANY authority to ban or restrict guns, even from only small segments (for now) of the population, have historically led to disarmament of nearly all the population.
The Framers knew this history well.
And they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights accordingly. And the people of the time agreed, and decided to ratify it.
I concede that there is truth in what you said above. But is not part of the responsibly of owning firearms rules and regulations?
In most gun owners personal lives their households have rules/regulations involving guns. These rules would include not allowing the guns to fall into the hands of children, criminals, the mentally ill or terrorists. And most gun owners follow those rules by storing guns unloaded, in a safe or in a hidden hard to reach area. And most gun owners also follow a rule of not selling their firearms to the mentally ill, criminals or terrorists.
Shouldn't our government have rules and regulations to not allow guns to fall into the hands of children, the mentally ill, criminals or terrorists?
Personally I believe one way for the minority of Americans who own guns to forever keep their gun rights is to desire a government that implements all the rules and regulations of responsible gun owners, and desire a government that takes every possible step to ensure guns are sold and used responsibly. And also have a government that never allows the 75%+ of Americans who don't own guns to get upset about guns in America (because when they get upset Americans loose gun rights.)
I concede that there is truth in what you said above. But is not part of the responsibly of owning firearms rules and regulations?
Sure. Regulations like "Don't murder people", "Don't assault people", "Don't steal", Don't threaten people", etc., which apply regardless of what weapon you use: Gun, knife, automobile, baseball bat, fists.
And no others.
Look up the 2nd amendment. It says so. And even explains why.
In modern language, the 2nd says, "Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right or ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons cannot be taken away or restricted."
Long ago, the Framers decided that the country would be safer and better off if government had no say at all in what guns etc. people could own and carry. And they wrote the Law of the Land accordingly. And every state agreed, and ratified it. They knew that the people themselves could protect themselves against common criminals, as well as against oppressive government, better than anyone else.
Self-proclaimed "gun control" pushers have been trying ever since to violate and ignore that law. With varying degrees of success.
Yeah, sure, that makes lots of sense, if you're an NRA terrorist, I guess. Why does the U.S. have like 20x as many murders as other first world countries? It is the only country where guns are handed out like candy and there are barely any rules.
People shoot and kill people because there are gun laws....
Back to reality, regulations save lives. Auto deaths are down 95% since regulation began. Similarly, we could cut gun-related deaths by a massive amount if the NRA could be defeated.
HUGE difference, cars are not a threat to govt authority or control in anyway.
"Those who are willing to give up a little liberty for the sake of a little security, deserve neither".
I can understand why republicans oppose a assault weapons ban and banning large-capacity magazines. But why do republicans oppose laws that would stop the mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns?
...
And how can conservatives expect liberals to be open to their ideas, when republicans attack ALL liberal gun ideas? (even attacking ideas to stop the mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns)
You get your information about firearm laws from MSNBC and expect to be taken seriously?
1) it's already illegal for the mentally ill to buy firearms.
2) That headline is a liberal distortion of reality. That bill blocked anyone on a secret government list that anyone could be put on with no way to be taken off, from buying a gun without due process. Democrats used to be supporters of civil rights.
ALL liberal 'gun ideas' are the same and accomplish nothing. Start with enforcing existing laws, maybe, just maybe, they'll work.
I guess I understand now why gun nuts have to post 60% of the OPs on here - they don't believe in statistics, reality, experience or common sense.
As has been made clear, states and regions (the Northeast, for example) have 1/2, 1/4 or even 1/10th the violent crime as the worst regions (the South - and some parts of the West)....
Texas has 300% more violence (largely gun) than MA. Why? Are people from Texas natural born killers? Are they wife beaters and child abusers in bulk compared to others?
Well - truth is THEY ARE "Texas is ranked second in the nation for domestic violence incidents"
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't really care, but the fact is that I can own most any kind of firearm in my state that is capable of doing anything a weapon is for. I can own a whole stock of them if I want. But we also have strict laws...and we also have low violence.
So when ANYONE says gun laws don't work - they are repeating a falsehood.....also called lies.
The simple fact - which any reasonable person would conclude - is that Texas likes those little extra gun "rights" (like no background checks at gun shows, no limits on anything, etc.) better than they like the human beings who live there. It's a simple choice. More people alive....or 50 guns with large mags and bump stocks instead of just 10 or 20 with stock mags and some basic background and other checks.
You choose. But you also lose a lot of good people.
So much ignorance and bigotry in one post, par for the course for anti gun nuts.
Why does Texas have more domestic violence? Maybe having an open border with a third world country with vastly higher crime rates has something to do with it?
Believe it or not just because YOU say gun laws "work" doesn't make it fact.
I can understand why republicans oppose a assault weapons ban and banning large-capacity magazines. But why do republicans oppose laws that would stop the mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns?
Most states already allow concealed carry, and 26 states allow concealed carry without even requiring gun training. Did this solve the murder problem in those states? https://www.thetrace.org/2016/02/liv...carry-permits/
And gun carry laws are not entirely a liberal or conservative issue. Many liberal states allow guns to be openly carried without a licence, while conservative states like Texas prohibit open carry. https://americanconcealed.com/articl...ncealed-carry/
Both liberals and conservatives admit that we have a gun murder problem in America, wouldn't the proper solution be to work together and compromise to solve this problem?
Like not allowing certain people with mental illnesses and suspected terrorists to buy guns. And then have a honest conversation about assault weapons (the weapon most mass murderers choose for their crimes.)
And then have a real conversation about concealed carry with the goal of all states having concealed carry laws like Vermont.
But today republicans refuse to even stop the mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns, they refuse to have a honest conversation about assault weapons, while they turn any conversation about gun laws to a political "liberals want to grab your guns" campaign.
And how can conservatives expect liberals to be open to their ideas, when republicans attack ALL liberal gun ideas? (even attacking ideas to stop the mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns)
Why do Liberals oppose laws to keep the mentally ill and criminals locked up and immigration/travel restrictions to keep terrorists out of the country to begin with?
Why do the laws the left wants to pass always seem to punish those who haven't done anything ?
Vermont is the only state in the U.S. with both loose gun laws and low gun crime, so it's a huge exception.
And you know Vermont is basically an empty state full of aging white hippies living on farms. It isn't going to have a bunch of gun-related crime regardless. You can't compare it to some big metropolitan center. Vermont will never have the crime rate of Detroit even if you gave everyone an AK-47.
And even Vermont has crazy high gun-related crime compared to most places in the civilized world.
So what does that tell us about gun related crime?
That it has everything to do with the people and society and nothing to do with the guns or even existing gun laws themselves.
I feel 1000x safer in places like Germany and Italy, places with actual sensible gun laws and a tiny fraction of U.S. crime.
Even in the U.S., places with sensible gun rules, like NY and CA, are a million times safer than places like Texas and Alabama.
Oh my....where to begin. I guess a little tit for tat. Says someone who has never seen or experienced CAs gun laws in action. CA's laws are THE most nonsensicle and down right bassackwards in the country. Uh huh, they "work" alright. As a source of revenue and assure that criminals go untouched. More law abiding and non criminal people have been and are effected by CAs insanity than the creeps who actually use guns in criminal activity.
CA's police agencies arrest and prosecute far more people for "gun violations" who are NOT criminals. Staking out shooting ranges and competition events, looking for whatever silly reason they can find to pull people over when they leave and then looking for some small technicality to toss their vehicle, take their guns and arrest them.
Some silly thing like someone left a stray , loose cartridge in their pocket and have their guns in the vehicle cabin. Even if they are otherwise in compliance with the requirement to have their guns in locked cases, and their ammunition in locked cases in a separate compartment of the vehicle that one little round they picked up and put in their pocket after clearing is grounds to be treated like a banger on the way to a drive by.
Except they aren't looking for bangers on the way to a drive by. Their staking out a competition event or shooting range where people are using their guns for lawful purpose. They can always find someone who made an honest error to cuff n stuff and then rake over the coals monetarily. Meanwhile in another part of town the Latin Kings or some such group of creeps hoses down a few residences because someone who might live in one of them crossed over to the wrong side of the street wearing the wrong color jacket.
"Sensible" gun laws indeed. And how many of these mass shootings have happened in the great, safe state of CA? And do happen every day but are not reported on? You call firearms owners "nuts"? "Crazed?" I personally feel a whole lot safer at a shooting range or competitive event surrounded by people with guns who are law abiding and honest people than I do walking down any given street in CA or NYC. But especially n CA I , as a law abiding gun owner, and also under far more threat from the police than I am from criminals. The only difference is the cops steal your money under the auspices of the law.
"Sensible" gun laws indeed. Why go after the criminals, who will have to be prosecuted (and maybe let go) housed, fed and given medical care and have nothing of value and won't pay fines and court costs when they can nail a citizen for some petty "violation" who will have to see a big chunk of his paycheck (since he actually has a job) given to the court for a few years.
Yea, I've seen these "sensible gun laws" in action. I'm less than impressed.
I feel 1000x safer in places like Germany and Italy, places with actual sensible gun laws and a tiny fraction of U.S. crime.
Even in the U.S., places with sensible gun rules, like NY and CA, are a million times safer than places like Texas and Alabama.
Which gun rules are working so great? I live here, don't see them. It's demographics.
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