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So how do we handle these accusations going forward?
Do we believe all of the accusations outright?
Does society punish all of these men and future men? Should they lose their jobs based on "accusations"?
Do we only punish those that can be tried and convicted?
Do we individually only punish those who have the opposite political views as ourselves?
Do we defend the men we "like" and crucify those we don't?
Do we put a "time limit" on those we punish? Say in the last 10 years?
Do we start anew and only new harassers should be punished if tried and convicted?
How exactly are we going to handle all of these new allegations that are sure to start coming out. Not for nothing, but MANY men (especially those in power) have harassed a woman or two in their lifetimes. As now, it seems woman feel more empowered to speak about these occurrences, we are going to be hearing a lot of stories about high profile men. Along with this new "movement" there are many sick women who will take advantage for 15 minutes of fame and fabricate stories. Should the men they accuse lose their jobs and become lepers of society? How can we be sure which stories are real?
We are heading into a very murky area. I can only hope that no innocent man is taken down by lies. I also hope that all real predators are exposed. But how??
Interesting food for thought. What is it we want to happen? Do we want to take them down? Are there 'degrees' of transgression?
Do we assume a man today is the same as a man 30 years ago?
Also - while it's great that Hollywood and DC pols are being taken to task - men in corporate America are getting off scot free because they aren't famous.
I remember watching the Anita Hill hearings and knowing that every woman watching understood exactly what she was talking about. Stepping forward at that time took real courage. And just as she--and every woman watching it--feared, she was not believed.
I hope she is feeling some vindication today, though the man who harassed her is enjoying life as a respected justice today without repercussion. History will not judge him as kindly as his fellow men did at the time.
There was another woman in DC, subpoenaed, and prepared to testify. The committee would not permit it.
It really is amazing how the work ever gets done with all the harassment, groping, kissing, sex, etc., that is going on in every workplace everywhere all day long. I mean how do they do it? When do they find the time to answer email?
Seriously? In 20+ years of working I have never seen it, never heard about it in any workplace, never had a friend or coworker or relative have an issue, ever. There was one guy who liked to stare at everyone's boobs. We didn't care. He was a jerk, we all knew it and IGNORED him. Seriously, wreck our day over HIM? no one cared.
Beyond that person, how is that possible with it being so rampant everywhere that every man is a predator and every woman is a victim that it did not affect anyone I know, working at multiple companies, multiple states?
If you have never seen it in twenty years - you are lucky. Because I can assure you - it does happen in the workplace.
Guess you got lucky. Also, past twenty years there have been sexual harassment policies in place and awareness of it in the workplace. Before that there were no real consequences and victims had to worry for their jobs if they reported it.
I remember a case where a supervisor complained about a woman being distracting to his male workers because she was pretty. She had to be moved. Stuff like this is crazy, I don't think it happens anymore.
I don't think I got "lucky." I think that the vocal minority are making this into a gargantuan problem that doesn't exist in the manner or frequency they are suggesting.
And if things have changed and men don't DO this anymore, why is there such a fuss about it?
I'm having a difficult time understanding what the wanted outcome is.
Other than men bashing, that is. I mean, does it really matter if one guy grabbed your boob one time 35 years ago at an office party? Really? It's made THAT big of an impression on women that it has destroyed their lives and they need to make themselves victims NOW? And I'm NOT talking about sexual assault. Because I'm not seeing that as the majority of complaints.
If you have never seen it in twenty years - you are lucky. Because I can assure you - it does happen in the workplace.
I'm not denying that it happens.
I'm questioning the absolute assertions that this is a widespread mainstream problem that is occurring every second of the day everywhere to every women that works with a man.
I'm questioning the absolute assertions that this is a widespread mainstream problem that is occurring every second of the day everywhere to every women that works with a man.
You’re right. This is nothing more than a feminist witch hunt. Just like the lie in 1990s about 1 in 4 women being raped.
I don't think I got "lucky." I think that the vocal minority are making this into a gargantuan problem that doesn't exist in the manner or frequency they are suggesting.
And if things have changed and men don't DO this anymore, why is there such a fuss about it?
I'm having a difficult time understanding what the wanted outcome is.
Other than men bashing, that is. I mean, does it really matter if one guy grabbed your boob one time 35 years ago at an office party? Really? It's made THAT big of an impression on women that it has destroyed their lives and they need to make themselves victims NOW? And I'm NOT talking about sexual assault. Because I'm not seeing that as the majority of complaints.
Breast groping/grabbing IS sexual assault. Who said their lives were destroyed because they are outing these abusers. They just want the guys who got away with this for so long to be exposed. Yes, it is a big impression, I'm sure Terry Crews wont forget it years down the line either.
I imagine it happens much less in corporate America these days, but prevalent in some fields like entertainment, start-ups, anywhere there are more independent contractors vs. employees, and simply with very powerful people and entities which protect them. There are still a lot of areas it has been going on without real consequence.
I don't think I got "lucky." I think that the vocal minority are making this into a gargantuan problem that doesn't exist in the manner or frequency they are suggesting.
And if things have changed and men don't DO this anymore, why is there such a fuss about it?
I'm having a difficult time understanding what the wanted outcome is.
Other than men bashing, that is. I mean, does it really matter if one guy grabbed your boob one time 35 years ago at an office party? Really? It's made THAT big of an impression on women that it has destroyed their lives and they need to make themselves victims NOW? And I'm NOT talking about sexual assault. Because I'm not seeing that as the majority of complaints.
My thoughts on this are that if something happened to you way in the past and you didn't feel empowered to speak up; yet today you see the perpetrator in a position of power, I think it might be okay to say something. I agree that a boob-grab at a party might not hit my radar at all. But, let's use Franken for an example: If I knew a senator did something derogatory to me many years ago and I had an inkling that this might be standard behavior for him, yes, I'd say something. If it was one of those limited lapses in judgment in an overall long history of good behavior, I wouldn't.
In Weinstein, Cosby, and now Moore's case, absolutely something needs to be said based on their positions of power and demonstrated pattern of predatory behavior.
I'm questioning the absolute assertions that this is a widespread mainstream problem that is occurring every second of the day everywhere to every women that works with a man.
Hey, I know, let's build a great big straw man and then knock it down!
NO ONE here said it occurred "every second of the day everywhere to every women that works with a man." Oh, except for YOU.
But it happens often enough with enough regularity to enough women that it's a problem.
My thoughts on this are that if something happened to you way in the past and you didn't feel empowered to speak up; yet today you see the perpetrator in a position of power, I think it might be okay to say something. I agree that a boob-grab at a party might not hit my radar at all. But, let's use Franken for an example: If I knew a senator did something derogatory to me many years ago and I had an inkling that this might be standard behavior for him, yes, I'd say something. If it was one of those limited lapses in judgment in an overall long history of good behavior, I wouldn't.
In Weinstein, Cosby, and now Moore's case, absolutely something needs to be said based on their positions of power and demonstrated pattern of predatory behavior.
The women go along with it.
And I am NOT talking sexual assault/rape. I'm talking the nod nod wink wink where the women consent to the quid pro quo and then claim harassment LATER. That's not harassment. Either you agreed to the casting couch or you didn't. You agree to the quid pro quo and get what you wanted in EXCHANGE for something the other party wants is not harassment.
I am in NO WAY saying casting couch is OK. It's not. But I haven't seen a credible story where someone refused advances and didn't get the part.
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