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Old 12-05-2017, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
It should have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with freedom.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,636,949 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
I have never seen a wedding cake at the wedding ceremony. It's generally served at the reception after the wedding ceremony has finished.
Yeah, there is never a cake present for the same sex couple to kiss over after saying I do. So the baker wouldn't have to worry about such a scene.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
So business owners should have the freedom to discriminate against you, too, huh?
Yes, absolutely.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,461,656 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Colorado state law is superceded by Constitutional Rights and/or federal law via the US Constitution's Supremacy Clause. There are no anti-discrimination protections for LGBT under federal law, hence, no "law of the land." Therefore, a state law cannot violate the baker's First Amendment Rights.
Your last sentence is completely correct. That is what the Supreme Court is being asked to determine - whether the First Amendment rights of the baker were violated.

The fact that there are not LGBT protections under federal law is not relevant because federal anti-discrimination laws do not preempt state anti-discrimination laws since there is no conflict (or field preemption, which is also essentially about conflict between state and federal law - not that you’d have a clue).

You’re making yourself look ridiculous every time you spout that there are no LGBT protections under federal law. It doesn’t matter, and the attorneys here aren’t bringing it up because it’s completely irrelevant.

However, both federal and state law must comply with the First Amendment. Whether a state law complies has nothing to do with the lack of federal LGBT protections.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
That article does not say that state level laws aren't valid.
Again, because you're continuing to fail to understand... State and local laws are superceded by Constitutional Rights and/or federal law. The baker's First Amendment Rights were violated by Colorado's state law, and LGBT is not a federally protected class under the CRA. There just isn't any legal basis to find for anyone other than the baker in this case.

And Scalia was referring to federal law, not a state's law. BIG difference, due to the Supremacy Clause.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,207,906 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Your last sentence is completely correct. That is what the Supreme Court is being asked to determine - whether the First Amendment rights of the baker were violated.

The fact that there are not LGBT protections under federal law is not relevant because federal anti-discrimination laws do not preempt state anti-discrimination laws since there is no conflict (or field preemption, which is also essentially about conflict between state and federal law - not that you’d have a clue).

However, both federal and state law must comply with the First Amendment.

You’re making yourself look hilarious.
Even then the first amendment is not absolute in regards to anti-discrimination laws. Maurice Bessinger claimed religious belief to deny seating to blacks in violation of the CRA. He was ruled against.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:26 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,140,056 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
No exceptions - beliefs shouldn't have to be compromised
So you're ok with Muslim ER doctors refusing to operate on women?

And many doctors in North America are Muslim, so...
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,461,656 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Even then the first amendment is not absolute in regards to anti-discrimination laws. Maurice Bessinger claimed religious belief to deny seating to blacks in violation of the CRA. He was ruled against.
The US Constitution trumps any federal or state law.

The issue there was the First Amendment didn’t give him that right. That’s all this is about - trying to figure out whether the First Amendment gives a baker the right to refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,207,906 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Again, because you're continuing to fail to understand... State and local laws are superceded by Constitutional Rights and/or federal law. The baker's First Amendment Rights were violated by Colorado's state law, and LGBT is not a federally protected class under the CRA. There just isn't any legal basis to find for anyone other than the baker in this case.

And Scalia was referring to federal law, not a state's law. BIG difference, due to the Supremacy Clause.
Scalia was ruling on a case regarding OREGON state law, not a federal law. The case was Employment division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith. "At the time, intentional possession of peyote was a crime under Oregon law"

Maybe you can point out the federal law involved in that case.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,207,906 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
The US Constitution trumps any federal or state law.

The issue there was the First Amendment didn’t give him that right. That’s all this is about - trying to figure out whether the First Amendment gives a baker the right to refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings.
It didn't allow Bessinger the right to refuse service to blacks. What makes the bakers first amendment claim more valid than Bessingers?
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