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Well, there were a lot od dirty tricks involved...like the Democrats with Bernie...
Romney was pathetic.
Stick with the religious right, against gay marriage, against drugs and see where you will end up.....
Trump won because was, in a way, a breath of fresh air in the GOP (in some aspects what Ron Paul would have been as well)...no establishment Republicans would have won against Hillary, not a single one.....we would have Madame president currently
Trump won because he figured out how to work the EC better than previous GOP candidates and Hillary Clinton. His america first message resonated in close swing states.
Kasich might have beat her being moderate and right in the middle of the states that flipped for Trump. Although he was doomed in the primaries.
Libertarians do not want to take away entitlement....they just want to introduce honesty about how to pay for them...
BULL. Libertarians are 100% all about no social safety nets and raping the globe for profit. They are selfish people.
put 100 libertarians in a room and you have 100 plans for gov, each plan will benefit the L who proposes it.
The good news is the current fiscal policies being pushed by the Republican party are so draconian that they will be "OoO" very shortly.
Libertarianism takes things a bit too far for most people, I think. I agree that the socially liberal aspect is something that the GOP should embrace moving forward, especially if it wants to continue being relevant as future generations replace the cranky selfish old farts that currently make up the party.
Problems with libertarianism that will prevent it from ever going mainstream:
1. Dramatic scaling back of military. Only if you are a complete moron would you think this is a good idea in today's environment...
2. Dramatic scaling back of government regulations/programs. Libertarianism is closer to anarchism, and practically speaking, that position is too severe for most people.
The key, I think, to GOP success is maintaining the fiscal and personal responsibility platform while shifting further left socially. Avoid the aggressive and obnoxious social justice warrior nonsense that democrats seem to embrace though... we need more of a laid back model of social liberalism.
Last edited by ryanst530; 12-14-2017 at 10:02 AM..
We Americans already tried libertarianism in the late 1800s: it led to monopolies and trusts. Ironically, it took Big Evil Government (Teddy Roosevelt et. al.) to restore an economy based on market competition.
Libertarianism is good for the wealthy and powerful. That’s it. Everyone else (consumers, employees) gets the shaft. Read “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair if you want to see what a libertarian society looks like.
The most successful countries in the world have market economies with robust social programs, universal healthcare, access to higher education for the best and brightest, strong consumer, labor, and environmental protection laws, robust funding of scientific research to create whole new industries, etc.
We Americans already tried libertarianism in the late 1800s: it led to monopolies and trusts. Ironically, it took Big Evil Government (Teddy Roosevelt et. al.) to restore an economy based on market competition.
Libertarianism is good for the wealthy and powerful. That’s it. Everyone else (consumers, employees) gets the shaft. Read “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair if you want to see what a libertarian society looks like.
The most successful countries in the world have market economies with robust social programs, universal healthcare, access to higher education for the best and brightest, strong consumer, labor, and environmental protection laws, robust funding of scientific research to create whole new industries, etc.
I completely agree. sadly most Americans are so deeply soaked in generations of propaganda geared towards fending off communism that they think social programs are bad.
Universal healthcare would be good for corps, and great for the public. low cost 3rd level ed, allows a nation access it full range of talent.
Libertarianism might have actually made some real impact if Trump hadn't come along. Unfortunately that empowered the alt-right who hate libertarians and hate libertarianism and preach a philosophy which is the exact opposite of libertarianism. Bernie's socialism also sucked wind out of the libertarian movement despite being the exact opposite on issues of economics (even if on the same page on civil liberties issues). That suggests that a lot of support for libertarians in the 21st century was not so much because of a belief in libertarianism as it was a protest vote.
I do think the Libertarian Party would have done better in 2016 if not for the smear campaign against it by the DNC, especially as for the first time ever the LP nominated a candidate who was saner and more qualified than the major party candidates.
Libertarian/classical liberal/minarchist philosophy has no chance in a Fabian socialist welfare state, which is what the US currently is.
It really has no chance once voting goodies from the public funds has been established to any degree, much less once a welfare state is fully entrenched and gaining weight like the ravenous behemoth they all are.
Think of it like the number of people willing to live off the grid in Alaska versus willing to live in the creature comforts of a major city welfare state. Dramatically different populations. Same thing with the true individualist ideology. The people willing to forego all of Leviathan's free candy in exchange for Leviathan leaving them alone entirely is very small, because the vast majority of people are OK with being ruled/commanded/dictated to in return for the comfort afforded being a subject. True freedom is hard work, and the longer welfare states are entrenched, the fewer people there are that can even comprehend what hard work even means much less actually be willing to do any.
Immediately following a successful revolt from a tyrant, libertarianism makes all the sense in the world. But politicians are scumbags, all governments always and everywhere evolve to tyranny, and as time passes and more free stuff gets doled out by the central tyrant, the less sense libertarianism makes. Essentially, it is best left in a glass case with a placard that reads "break in case of revolution and post revolution new order."
Freedom and independence has very little place in any sort of entrenched government system.
Last edited by Volobjectitarian; 12-14-2017 at 11:53 AM..
Libertarianism is a minority position. It’s favored mainly by survivalists, anti-government loons, and a few billionaires. It has little mainstream appeal, because most people don’t want grandma losing her Medicare.
Libertarianism is a minority position. It’s favored mainly by survivalists, anti-government loons, and a few billionaires. It has little mainstream appeal, because most people don’t want grandma losing her Medicare.
It isn't about grandma's Mediwelfare, it's about all the comforts and trappings of the welfare state that people think only government can provide and keep providing.
Rothbard covers this in his Libertarian Manifesto using the shoe example (among others). Goes like this - right now, everyone buys their own shoes. There are brick and mortar, online, catalog, etc outlets for trying shoes on, purchasing, returns, repairs, etc. Now let the government first provide shoes to some poor, then all the poor, then lower middle class, etc. Eventually, the government will be how everyone acquires shoes. Eventually, the time will come when nobody will be able to comprehend a way in which one could acquire shoes WITHOUT government.
Grandma's welfare entitlements aren't your concern - YOUR WELFARE ENTITLEMENTS ARE. You have some number of comforts, entitlements and privileges that a) you cannot imagine living without and b) think the government is the only entity capable of providing. You use "grandma's Mediwelfare" as your stated concern to make yourself seem benevolent, unselfish ad altruistic, but in reality, there is a bunch of Freak80 welfare that Freak80 is attached to and refuses to give up even in theory, but Freak80 doesn't want to come off as weak and selfish as the welfare state has made them. Nobody likes admitting to the Faustian bargain they have with Leviathan, but they have it regardless.
It's OK. There's a reason not a lot of people live on desert islands, or on sailboats in the middle of the ocean, or above the Arctic Circle, etc. True individualism has downsides, one of which is a lack of the comforts you get being a subject under a tyrant's rule.
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