Liberals? Dems? Would you support this?

[James Bond 007]

Well, your proposals are never going to happen so you can wish anything you want!

[NY_refugee87]

To try and make it more understandable and give an example of how it would work.

I want to bring Studebaker back.
That's quite a hurdle to jump.
Lots of regulations in place that protect GM Ford Mopar Honda Toyota Nissan Hyundai Kia.

I have the money or at least the assets to get a loan large enough to start producing Studebaker to build a production plant, secure employment (engineers to assembly line workers) secure raw materials whether virgin materials or recycled, and get franchises to buy in...
Why pay 35% in tax to do so?
Why not 5% why not 0%?

I would set up shop in an area of high unemployment. Pick ANY city or town at or below the poverty line. That is where I would start.

What I don't pay in taxes, I have paid into wages reducing the need for hand outs.
I hire people of all skill levels. From janitors and maintenance to engineers for R&D (direct) to (indirect) OTR truckers to haul my products to franchises.

The side effect like I stated would be people in those areas would no longer be dependent on a hand out to get by. You now have people hired to support themselves rather than waiting for the 1st and the 15th for a check from uncle sam. No more needing a college degree and x years worth of relative expirience. I'm offering on the job training/apprenticeship.

Say you are a landlord 007. You apply to get tax breaks at the local level. You no longer have to raise rent to remain breaking even or profitable.

Just solved 1 facet of high cost of living.
And padded the land lords pocket by cutting their tax burden while passing the savings on by filling vacant apartments and adjusting prices due to demand. If and only if they're not price gouging. To me, unless a domicile has marble floors granite counters brass fixtures a bidet a shower or tub big enough for 4, it isn't worth 1200 1500 per month in rent.

Other side effect would be folks having a paycheck being able to live and get by heck even save and perhaps be on their way to becoming home owners. If they want to stay in an apartment then cool, nobody is forcing anyone to go buy a house. If they're comfortable in an apartment that's fine.

Think though, of all the vacant boarded up derelict buildings and houses. They don't all have to be bulldozed or vacant property within a 20 mile radius of that plant scooped up to be developed. Not at all.

Could take those current areas and renovate them. There's the other side effect. Conserving what's not inhabited and renovating it. OR bulldoze it and build new in place of it.

The side effect there, bringing contractors in to meet the housing demand, and with more property owners, you have more property taxes collected lowering the property taxes too... that contractor takes on a crew of laborers and apprentices that didn't get swept up in my plant being built and being employed by me. Along comes a demand for better and higher amperage service for a house. Well hot diggity damn! Electricians are now in demand. Bad septic systems broken/missing water pipes hot damn we need plumbers.

Now we have people who need a vehicle to get back and forth to work. So they take advantage in the mean time of public transportation or car pooling, whatever.

I'm selling Studebaker Champs for 8k a piece brand new. Power locks windows passive anti theft system Bluetooth compatible with a sporty appearance and comfortable seats.

A first of its kind rear wheel and awd that could with a little work, accept a small block V8 OR I take the RC car route and make brushless electric motors and have some all electric cars. Battery being the killer to weight savings and distance it can travel.

Something the size of a ford focus I can afford to do this because I hire all American and pay 0 in federal corporate tax.

I have a franchise in that city/town that belongs to Geeo Salesmen are needed to demo and sell cars.
Mechanics are needed to maintain and repair the cars. Parts staff are needed to look up parts. Managers are needed. Hot damn more jobs! Geeo hires on factory trained technicians and apprentices, hires on salesmen, and pairs apprentices with salesmen to learn how to move weight.

What is another side effect? We need a school system for the workers kids.
We need a hospital. There's your doctors. Your nurses. Your maintenance staff security staff.
We need primary care and specialist physicians.
More positive side effects!

With housing sales, and how I'd focus on lifting capital gains tax... you're wise and bought 2 properties from this city or went down to the bank and rubbed elbows with the asset manager and you bought 2 vacant houses. Well hot damn you fixed one and sold it for profit and used those proceeds to fix the one you live in to make it how you want it.
Also would create a demand for realtors/agents/brokers.

Now you need attorneys to focus on taxes, and drafting closing contracts.

Hot damn I just made more indirect jobs!

Pretty sure I just kicked crimes teeth in as there wouldn't be a need to sling dope and fight for gang turf.

My cars are a hit a forum takes off like CD and kids take to it to hot rod these little 8k dollar cars. Contrary to planned obscelesence I would be building stuff that lasts. So you see some enterprising young person develop a V8 swap kit. A software expert writes the tunes to support a V8 swap. Another one focuses on suspension modification so the little things can corner like a roller coaster at 100mph.
Another one focuses on making stereo equipment like speaker and subwoofers boxes and installing aftermarket stereos.

I expand Studebaker and bring back Packard. Think big full frame luxury cars that would probably put Cadillac Lincoln Lexus Chrysler Audis Mercedes BMW into panic mode.
I move to a different area of high unemployment rates. And do the same.
Only I rely on what normally would be thrown away as waste... real leather. I'd bring back real legitimate leather. Seats that are like lazy boy recliners. heated and air conditioned with massage for every seat except the drivers. Don't need people catching Zs at the wheel.

If I sink, I sink. If I flourish so does everyone else. Why? Because I take care of those who take care of me. See? I'm spreading wealth. Not debt. I just created jobs. I provide on the job training. Jobs that pay.

I made social programs redundant by offering wages. I partner with a health insurance provider natalie469 and offer very affordable insurance plans IF the employees even want insurance. If not they don't need to be penalized. It's their choice.

That's the ultimate goal here. Lower, significantly lower costs of living and provide opportunity without government intervention passing debts onto you me and everyone else.

In comparing the why's of cost of living have risen it's easy to say inflation. Dig deeper. Alot of tax increases and regulation contributed to it as well.
I'm simply focusing on removing the tax burdens and socialized debt and making opportunities for all much easier than the corporate model of needing a college degree and x years of expirience when on the job training would take the place of a pricey trade school or college course. That's lowering another cost of living.

Sounds alien right? Sounds impossible right?
It worked long before I was even a twinkle in my parents eye...
Long before businesses thrived on low wage labor via illegal aliens and reduced labor via visa holders... the higher taxes = higher cost of operation = looking for cost saving innovation of automation and cheap labor from visa holders or illegal immigrants.

I'm looking to end that. That is all.

It would work in any area.

And what did that model accomplish?

Weaned people off of welfare. Weaned people off of section 8. Weaned people off of needing a college degree. No more big debt to take. Weaned people off of being criminals having to sling dope, break and enter to steal. Weaned people off of thinking they need a governmental big brother to look out for them. Provided opportunities that haven't existed in YEARS. Opened the avenues for revenue to flow like water. Weaned dependency of tax revenue collected because people wouldn't be reliant on welfare food stamps housing aid so on so forth.

Remember, my factory employs everyone it can from those with becoming an apprentice to those currently educated in the field they are in (production staff engineering staff foundry staff etc)
They're going to need places to live. They can start by rebuilding what they have locally without needing urban expansion...

As CEO of Studebaker motors... what would I be doing? I can live comfortably on 200k-1 million per year. That would be my paycheck. Rick wagoner needed 10s of millions per year and he bankrupted General Motors. LOL

Well I'd probably give back to the community pay for drivers ed for teenagers (start them out young)
Provide a local race track. (Give the young and wreckless a place to do donuts burnouts drag race get it out of their system and not out on the street)
Bring in something to keep kids from turning to crime. A big one was skateboarding. I don't care what political party you are. Late 90s-early00s EVERYONE hated kids on skateboards, roller blades, and BMX bikes. I'd make a park for them to go tear it up. With an urgent car close by. That way if Timmy falls and breaks an arm... help is near by.
And it keeps Timmy and his buddies from going out and tearing up the public stair sets hand rails etc. Or turning to video games and dope.

Provide sports fields maybe even an indoor arena free of charge. Want to have something to do 24/7 365 have at it. Trampolines foam pits raise hell kids have fun.
Don't be Dicks and spray paint houses smash windows and be destructive little heathens. Or ruin the public fun zones, you sign paperwork that you hold harmless and enter at your own risk so you're on your own.

Reinvest in employees giving raises, and holiday bonuses for federal holidays and whatever denomination they are (Jewish people get their paid holidays off, muslims theirs, Christians theirs, Buddhists theirs etc)

Thanks for not coming in today! Here's double time for taking it easy you earned it.

Reinvest to lower my costs of production. Why make the local power company rich? I'd go get someone to work on building a Molten Salt Reactor to power the facility.

Me. I'd be focusing on using those profits generated to giving others opportunity.
Putting quality Made in America vehicles on the road. That would be the primary one.
When I say quality, I mean cars that aren't going to rot out in 5 years in the north east.

And remember... with apprentices in abundance. The stereotypical working stiff that works for me, they have an emergency at home, or they want to go on a 2 week vacation? They can. Because their underling they trained can fill in for them. much like I had to do when I was an apprentice many moons ago.

My managers... in my factory and I'd encourage this for the franchise dealerships...
They wouldnt be business school grads...
Service managers at Studebaker dealerships or Packard dealerships would have to be able to do everything a mechanic can do, a service writer can do and be able to look up parts if need be. If a mechanic calls in sick. Or an overzealous service writer books too much work. No more air conditioned office for them. Roll those sleeves up.
Service writers would be former mechanics. Not glorified sales dinks who don't know the product or how to answer customer concerns and questions.
So would you have to retire? Not necessarily. If you like working but your back is shot from turning wrenches, and you're not a total dick to people you can be a service writer.

(I used to be in contact directly with customers in person or on the phone defeating the purpose of a service writer)

They would have to be legitimate leaders. Along with having the people skills of being bothered with customers and employees alike trying to balance keeping everyone happy.

That would be my corporate model. Would I need to draw 100 million a year? No. I'm not stingy per se.

My tax model would only encourage similar business models. And reward those.
Reducing federal and local tax burdens that are associated with unemployment and lack of opportunity.

[Cheesesteak Cravings]

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

Probably those T-shirt companies produce in smaller volumes, which makes it easier to hire more expensive American workers. The Gaps and Abercrombies of the world which sell millions of pieces of apparel every year in the US need a vastly bigger scale, which is realistically only doable in 3rd World nations. Otherwise you're not going to find enough workers in the US to man an operation the size that a Gap or Abercrombie needs ... unless you're willing to import hoards of 3rd World workers, which obviously you're not willing to do.

Well-meaning American Apparel learned this the hard way.

Textiles (that is, raw cloth) is still very do-able in the US, because it's very capital intensive and no so labor intensive. Apparel is the opposite and you're simply not going to get all that much of it in the US anymore. Completely unrealistic.

Everything I'm wearing is made in the USA. Some of it was union made.

I've been buying American before Trump made it cool again.

American-Giant has hands down the best hoodie I have ever owned. Fitted, not sloppy. Runs $80-$90. Made with US grown cotton here in the United States.

[James Bond 007]

Well, good for you. However, not everyone can afford $80-$90 hoodies when you can get them for half that price or less with made-elsewhere stuff.

[mikeyyc]

I think, without the multi-thousand word screed, is that we need an indexed flat tax with buckets above the current $250K max, and a flat corporate tax, and eliminate/reduce deductions to make it as simple as possible.


Of course the cascading unemployment of tens of thousands of accountants and tax people may be an issue.

[Cheesesteak Cravings]

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

Well, good for you. However, not everyone can afford $80-$90 hoodies when you can get them for half that price or less with made-elsewhere stuff.

And this is why working people of the United States will continue not to share in the benefits of the meaningless stock market rally.

That reminds me of a guy I worked with that used to talk about how if everybody bought US made stuff everybody would have good paying jobs, yada yada.

Almost his entire tool bag was filled with chinese and taiwanese tools because he said he "couldn't afford" US made tools. He told me he was definitely buy US made tools as his old tools wore out. Few months later his tool bag was stolen. He replaced all of it with the same imported stuff.

What people seem to struggle to understand is that it's a matter of choice. People want the government to step in and make everybody have good jobs, and bar cheap imports.

Personally I'm more interested in spending my money here. Hopefully it's enough to keep my fellow Americans off welfare programs. I'm not interested in rewarding the terrible working conditions in most foreign garment factories with my hard earned dollars.

We have the internet, none of this stuff is difficult to find if you take a few minutes to google it.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings

And this is why working people of the United States will continue not to share in the benefits of the meaningless stock market rally.

That reminds me of a guy I worked with that used to talk about how if everybody bought US made stuff everybody would have good paying jobs, yada yada.

Almost his entire tool bag was filled with chinese and taiwanese tools because he said he "couldn't afford" US made tools. He told me he was definitely buy US made tools as his old tools wore out. Few months later his tool bag was stolen. He replaced all of it with the same imported stuff.

What people seem to struggle to understand is that it's a matter of choice. People want the government to step in and make everybody have good jobs, and bar cheap imports.

Personally I'm more interested in spending my money here. Hopefully it's enough to keep my fellow Americans off welfare programs. I'm not interested in rewarding the terrible working conditions in most foreign garment factories with my hard earned dollars.

We have the internet, none of this stuff is difficult to find if you take a few minutes to google it.

Which is the goal of what I propose.

Instead of a Robin Hood approach, steal from the rich to give to the poor... to just get by... eliminate or significantly decrease companies tax burden ONLY if
1. 100% American Citizen workforce (no visas no illegals)
2. Provide on the job training (skilled trades no longer needing trade school/college expenses)
3. Provide a livable wage relative to that field. Hence if you're GM Ford Mopar Boeing etc etc (hence the 60% of non management positions make 55k+ per year)
4. Lower cost of living with lower taxes on landlords and eradication of capital gains tax. (Bulk of rent goes to taxes and insurance especially in states like NY)
5. Remove subsidies and cut taxes by streamlining and decreasing bureaucracy. (Lowering the cost to operate the government.)

Someone said previously they wouldn't support it as it is too fascist... apparently they don't know the definition of fascism as this literally is the complete opposite of fascism... the government doesn't have a say in production: what's being produced, or quantity for that matter.

I'd keep the trump tax plan part of eliminating write offs of salaries of 1 million and more. This will force companies that do draw record breaking profits to have an incentive to spread the wealth instead of horde it.

It's how we have issues like bankrupting businesses too big to fail to be later propped up with tax dollars. It's literally rewarding bad behaviors and practices. Now under my tax plan, it's literally sink or swim.

Want to pizz away 10s of millions on a CEO salary per year instead of provide employment opportunities? Or reinvest in the company? Whether to cover raises, speed up production, offset health insurance costs... That's your CEOs problem. Sorry Mr Mrs worker. Your Big Boss is a greedy prick. Grab your pitchforks and torches and go rally outside their house/houses.

[NY_refugee87]

I would have thought democrats would have been in favor of something that rewards noble causes to provide both wages and education with a lower cost of living to boot...

Interesting. Still 0 support for removing the intervention of federal bureaucracy to redistribute wealth, removing the requirement for a college degree to make it, with a lower tax burden for business big and small alike, or cut local property taxes so long as affordable housing was attainable independently...


That's very intersting, is it you want to have an exclusive party of ivy league educated and wealthy to give crumbs to the down trodden while claiming to fight for their raises, and freebie programs?

Worried about competition in the work place?

Wouldn't have a platform to run on since this would address higher costs of living and abundant job opportunities while companies still remain profitable and folks who would normally be unemployed have an opportunity to become employed and learn skills/trades?

An emphasis on less government employees and more private sector employees by reducing bureaucratic alphabet soup agencies?

If an employer were to follow the rules. Set up shop in a poverty striken area and came providing jobs, and on the job training, screen every applicant to ensure they are American Citizens. And lowering said employers taxes so that they Not the government, provided an income and education and remain profitable without having to go full crony capitalist and giving executives 7 and 8 figure salaries.

I'm at a loss trying to understand why if a democrats platform is equality and fairness for all, why they would oppose such a genuine idea to reduce a need for hand outs, in exchange for hand ups.

If I wanted to go to any place in America, and open a business that would provide a more than fair opportunity and wage, why I should still be subject to higher taxes if I am taking the place of big brother government and providing both wages and education/skills at my expense.
Whether I set up in Detroit or Appalachia. Any area of unemployment rates of 5% and up.
I'm perplexed as to how you wouldn't be in favor of this... yet would still want high taxes... It really seems like you genuinely are not concerned nor care about those you grandstand for...

Seems to me you shill for colleges to make money, Fannie and Freddy to make money at the expense of younger generations.
Seems to me you'd rather dictate life with hand outs and if that isn't enough turn to crime and drugs to go to prison.
Seems to me you'd rather justify higher taxes to operate a bigger government to redistribute as you see fit suppressing others.

Prove me wrong.

One almost did. They were in support for it so long as health insurance was free. Nope. We're not doing a tax plan that dictates life here.
No 20 30 40% of your income to prop up the health insurance or health care industry.

You keep more of your money and make the health insurance and health care market compete for your business in my model. Not padding the hospitals pockets or health insurance companies pockets. And no mandatory penalty if you choose not to have health insurance.

I would have thought democrats would have been in favor of something that rewards noble causes to provide both wages and education with a lower cost of living to boot... like I said. Companies would not wanting to give CEOs and board members 7 and 8 figure salaries anymore. It would serve in their best interest to provide livable wages and paid training/education rather than burden the youth with the "you need a college degree and 3-5 years relevant expirience" I address the legitimate issues in today's economy and society with a radical idea that instead of redistributing debt we redistribute wealth. And it's still opposed vehemently...

[NY_refugee87]

Could have sworn they'd have been in favor of legal marijuana for both medicinal and recreational use especially with the federal and state taxing the recreational use of it to pay down the debt... to generate a 0 balance, or eventual surplus...

Like I said. I don't care about pot. Its your life your choice. I don't agree with Sessions outlook on it like this is the 50s/60s/70s "Devils lettuce" approach when it would be au naturale no herbicides/pesticides being the only regulation and the content and concentration of the product labled no differently than Alcoholic beverages, while giving a middle finger to big pharmaceutical companies and keeping them out of it to be manipulated at a later date.

[Cheesesteak Cravings]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

I would have thought democrats would have been in favor of something that rewards noble causes to provide both wages and education with a lower cost of living to boot...

Interesting. Still 0 support for removing the intervention of federal bureaucracy to redistribute wealth, removing the requirement for a college degree to make it, with a lower tax burden for business big and small alike, or cut local property taxes so long as affordable housing was attainable independently...


That's very intersting, is it you want to have an exclusive party of ivy league educated and wealthy to give crumbs to the down trodden while claiming to fight for their raises, and freebie programs?

Worried about competition in the work place?

Wouldn't have a platform to run on since this would address higher costs of living and abundant job opportunities while companies still remain profitable and folks who would normally be unemployed have an opportunity to become employed and learn skills/trades?

An emphasis on less government employees and more private sector employees by reducing bureaucratic alphabet soup agencies?

If an employer were to follow the rules. Set up shop in a poverty striken area and came providing jobs, and on the job training, screen every applicant to ensure they are American Citizens. And lowering said employers taxes so that they Not the government, provided an income and education and remain profitable without having to go full crony capitalist and giving executives 7 and 8 figure salaries.

I'm at a loss trying to understand why if a democrats platform is equality and fairness for all, why they would oppose such a genuine idea to reduce a need for hand outs, in exchange for hand ups.

If I wanted to go to any place in America, and open a business that would provide a more than fair opportunity and wage, why I should still be subject to higher taxes if I am taking the place of big brother government and providing both wages and education/skills at my expense.
Whether I set up in Detroit or Appalachia. Any area of unemployment rates of 5% and up.
I'm perplexed as to how you wouldn't be in favor of this... yet would still want high taxes... It really seems like you genuinely are not concerned nor care about those you grandstand for...

Seems to me you shill for colleges to make money, Fannie and Freddy to make money at the expense of younger generations.
Seems to me you'd rather dictate life with hand outs and if that isn't enough turn to crime and drugs to go to prison.
Seems to me you'd rather justify higher taxes to operate a bigger government to redistribute as you see fit suppressing others.

Prove me wrong.

One almost did. They were in support for it so long as health insurance was free. Nope. We're not doing a tax plan that dictates life here.
No 20 30 40% of your income to prop up the health insurance or health care industry.

You keep more of your money and make the health insurance and health care market compete for your business in my model. Not padding the hospitals pockets or health insurance companies pockets. And no mandatory penalty if you choose not to have health insurance.

I would have thought democrats would have been in favor of something that rewards noble causes to provide both wages and education with a lower cost of living to boot... like I said. Companies would not wanting to give CEOs and board members 7 and 8 figure salaries anymore. It would serve in their best interest to provide livable wages and paid training/education rather than burden the youth with the "you need a college degree and 3-5 years relevant expirience" I address the legitimate issues in today's economy and society with a radical idea that instead of redistributing debt we redistribute wealth. And it's still opposed vehemently...

To be fair I was torn between Dem/Lib and Ind/Cent just because I'm more likely to vote that way. I once took a Liberal/Conservative test and came out 51% liberal, 49% conservative. So I voted as an independent/centrist on your poll.

I am a Bernie Sanders supporter, but I'm open to other systems where the majority of people have a better chance of a good life from hard work.

I may be a union member, and enjoy the privileges that come with it, but I wouldn't be where I am (a foreman) if I hadn't worked and studied hard to make more money and better financial security for my family.