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America is divided in many ways for many reasons...
For example, there are Americans who can discuss their political/ideological differences in an adult, intelligent and civil manner. On the other hand there are Americans who can only do so by belittling, insulting and being childish.
Which is Trump? Which is Obama? Who are you?
Diversity problem or trying to put people in the box designed for them ? The goal is unclear.
If we could just get a bunch of people who are in the middle and have them run for office, maybe Americans could get back together.
I don't like this split. It doesn't even feel like our country anymore.
It seems as though there's no place to fit in. If I go to the south, there are people walking around with loaded guns--in the streets! Not hunting rifles, but loaded guns to kill people.
If I am in the north, there are people who don't even think our country should protect its borders. Just let anybody walk in. Fine. No background check to see if they've killed someone, no vaccinations or medical check to protect the rest of us from whatever disease they might contract or carry.
And everybody's screaming about race when I thought race was a non issue. Most of us were brought up to believe that we're all the same inside and skin color doesn't matter. We went to school and worked with people of different races. Now all of a sudden races are fighting again as if it's back to the Civil War. And of course we're supposed to hate Muslims--I am rightfully suspicious of a lot of Muslims but just plain outright hatred? No, of course not.
Yeh, we just need a few normal, moderate candidates who think things though and are not all about money and greed. Are there any normal Americans left? Ones who would run for office?
I wish we could go back to the moderates who compromised for the good of our country and not their own self interest. Unfortunately, that is the past and we now have the extremists taking over our country.
One thing I noticed that divide us is action and wording. Both the Left including folks such as SJW, Pro Blacks, Feminist no longer believe in Action speaks louder than words. Instead they believe in words speak louder than actions. This notion is also believed by those in the right as well. People no longer care about good actions a person has done, and don't want those who have said wrong are not allowed to apologize. Whatever someone says is what they truly mean and that one wording destroys whatever good a person is done.
You have does that believe in Action speaks louder than words, and than these folks who feel that they have been victimized believe in words speak louder than actions. This group of people are dangerous because they want to destroy peoples reputations because of what they say. This is not good, and is un-American. You must allow people to say sorry and forgive them. That is the American way!
I don't know...
I think there are all kinds of Americans. There are people who believe in all variety of things. I've certainly encountered all variety of thinking in just this forum. Not sure how representative this forum is of Americans in general, but also from personal experience outside of this forum, there are all variety of folks out there thinking all variety of things.
What they do, how they act (or don't) is also a function of a variety of factors as mentioned before. In some ways we Americans have much in common. In other ways, we are very different. Not sure where that leaves us, but I started this thread with a focus on how it is that now Trump exposes another form of divide that is interesting to contemplate.
Some considered Obama divisive. I never felt that way. I think Trump is the epitome of divisive, but others think Trump is just someone who tells it like it is. Boils down to the numbers I suppose. How many people are Trump like in the way they think and act? How many are inclined in other better ways?
If we could just get a bunch of people who are in the middle and have them run for office, maybe Americans could get back together.
I don't like this split. It doesn't even feel like our country anymore.
It seems as though there's no place to fit in. If I go to the south, there are people walking around with loaded guns--in the streets! Not hunting rifles, but loaded guns to kill people.
If I am in the north, there are people who don't even think our country should protect its borders. Just let anybody walk in. Fine. No background check to see if they've killed someone, no vaccinations or medical check to protect the rest of us from whatever disease they might contract or carry.
And everybody's screaming about race when I thought race was a non issue. Most of us were brought up to believe that we're all the same inside and skin color doesn't matter. We went to school and worked with people of different races. Now all of a sudden races are fighting again as if it's back to the Civil War. And of course we're supposed to hate Muslims--I am rightfully suspicious of a lot of Muslims but just plain outright hatred? No, of course not.
Yeh, we just need a few normal, moderate candidates who think things though and are not all about money and greed. Are there any normal Americans left? Ones who would run for office?
Not sure what people expect, but if you are elected in your part of the country to promote the interests shared by your constituents, you can't very well "sell out" those interests when then you go to represent your area in Congress. Ultimately we would like to think that 535 representatives will not necessarily compromise their values but that the necessary number of votes will dictate some acceptable level of "collective wisdom" as our interests are brokered in Congress.
PS: I don't think all is as you describe. I fit in better where I live than many other parts of the country, and that is part of the reason I live where I do. Also one of the wonderful things about America! So many different and diverse states where we can choose to live according to what suits us best. Diversity is a good thing, but of course like with everything else, there's all the "good, bad and ugly" that goes along with.
Also not everyone lacks all levels of discretion and balance like you describe either. Even folks in border states count on whatever checks are prudent and/or in keeping with our immigration policies, but there are also factors that make some goals harder than others. Some policies make better sense than others in the grand scheme of things. Some problems and fears are overblown and leveraged for political purposes too. In any case, it isn't like the prevailing view is that we "should just let anyone walk in." Most of us just want appropriate immigration laws and that they be enforced effectively and humanely, in keeping with American values (not just the fears of some).
I don't see that "everybody's screaming about race either." There are those captured by the media that make some headlines, sure, but how many people do we see on TV who are just everyday Americans -- of all colors -- simply going about there lives, at work, with families, not screaming at all? Among many things we need to avoid is developing a perspective based on social media that distorts our sense reality when it comes to all 350 million Americans.
I wish we could go back to the moderates who compromised for the good of our country and not their own self interest. Unfortunately, that is the past and we now have the extremists taking over our country.
Who are you referring to?
535 members of Congress. One POTUS. Who are the "extremists taking over our country?" Specifics are somewhat important to make sense out of "who's who" in these circumstances and times...
To be extremely effective at promoting good over bad, right over wrong, is an extremely GOOD thing. Where we can't seem to see "eye to eye" is what represents the good and right versus the bad and wrong, and no one wants to compromise good for bad, right for wrong. Why should they?
America is divided in many ways for many reasons...
For example, there are Americans who can discuss their political/ideological differences in an adult, intelligent and civil manner. On the other hand there are Americans who can only do so by belittling, insulting and being childish.
Which is Trump? Which is Obama? Who are you?
Funny you mention this. I only have a handful of liberal friends, and of them , I'd say half I can have a good civil conversation with. The other two start getting loud, and insulting and it never ends well with them. One of that group, I really enjoy talking with. We both try to explain why we think the way we do and it never gets heated.
Funny you mention this. I only have a handful of liberal friends, and of them , I'd say half I can have a good civil conversation with. The other two start getting loud, and insulting and it never ends well with them. One of that group, I really enjoy talking with. We both try to explain why we think the way we do and it never gets heated.
I know a good many conservatives and liberals among my family and friends, and how people handle their politics is a lot like how they handle their alcohol. Or don't...
Another observation I've noticed is that those most conservative will avoid talking politics altogether, more than liberals seem inclined to do, and it is not because of fear or concern that liberals can't have civil conversation! I think they fear just the opposite. Those are the conservatives I tend to worry about the most...
I know a good many conservatives and liberals among my family and friends, and how people handle their politics is a lot like how they handle their alcohol. Or don't...
Another observation I've noticed is that those most conservative will avoid talking politics altogether, more than liberals seem inclined to do, and it is not because of fear or concern that liberals can't have civil conversation! I think they fear just the opposite. Those are the conservatives I tend to worry about the most...
I believe it is just the opposite. Big surprise. I hesitate to get into political conversations with Progressive friends of mine, as they are the ones that get overly emotional, and get unnecessarily nasty. You're projecting, which is another "liberal' trait.
I believe it is just the opposite. Big surprise. I hesitate to get into political conversations with Progressive friends of mine, as they are the ones that get overly emotional, and get unnecessarily nasty. You're projecting, which is another "liberal' trait.
Okay, but I know conservatives who do the same thing, and I don't shy from political conversations if that's what they want to have. Not projecting in any case. I'm describing friends and family I happen to know.
What everyone else does as a rule? I try to avoid broad-brushed profiling in those regards as a rule, though we can probably all agree that people can get emotional about politics as a rule, no matter which way they lean, as also proven in this forum. The trick is to find people who can actually have a calm, collected, civil adult conversation about our differences without letting emotions get the better of us. One of the reasons I like this forum instead, for example. You don't have the problem of people "talking over one another" or getting confused about who actually said what when it's all right there in black and white, on the record clear as can be, for all to judge as they wish if they wish. No real "heat of the moment" issues that can arise when it's face to face...
I watched "Good morning Vietnam" last night. I hadn't watched it since I was a kid, and could barely remember it.
It is a good movie. A sad movie.
I thought it was garbage. Consumerist trash for people fond of mental masturbation. The only thing sad about it is that so many people think it was good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
During the entire movie, a quote kept running through the back of my mind...
"The Whites have carried to these (colonial) people the worst that they could carry: the plagues of the world: materialism, fanaticism, alcoholism, and syphilis. Moreover, since what these people possessed on their own was superior to anything we could give them, they have remained themselves... The sole result of the activity of the colonizers is: they have everywhere aroused hatred."
I'm not going to tell you who said it. You should look it up for yourself.
The role of the United States in Vietnam was to spread Americanism. And what Americanism is, is materialism, consumerism, hedonism, and alcoholism(IE substance-abuse). And if you watch the movie, it is plain to see.
Is that what *you* truly think Americanism is? If you do, then you don't understand America at all.
You also fail to understand the quote from Mein Kampf, and have taken it completely out of context and used it to justify an unAmerican view of America.
Hitler was referring to something else: that the colonialism practiced by Western Societies was decadent in a way that couldn't meet the expectations of the Reich Fuhrer for a high-culture civilization suitable for GERMANS to inhabit. In other words, he is indicting the failures of economic colonialism - focused as it is on maximizing profit - and achieving that through exploitative practices like the extraction of resources and by encouraging formerly agrarian societies to industrialize and engage in high levels of consumerism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
When I watch the movie, and see all the prostitutes, and people who are selling their souls for money(which goes on today, all across Asia, and elsewhere); All I see is materialism. All I see is progressivism. All I see is liberalism. All I see is you.
Americanism isn't materialism and hedonism. Don't put any credence in the lines in some stupid movie. That's just Hollywood. You're going to take the spewing of some coke-addicted Hollywood screenwriter as some kind of authority on political philosophy or Americanism? Like all movies, Hollywood of course had an agenda to push with "Good Morning Vietnam" - which is the agenda of subverting American values, diminishing patriotism, and of course, smearing the country and its people as bad/evil/ineffectual.
Like most modern war movies, GMV was a morality play. And the villain was the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
If we could just get a bunch of people who are in the middle and have them run for office, maybe Americans could get back together.
I don't like this split. It doesn't even feel like our country anymore.
It seems as though there's no place to fit in. If I go to the south, there are people walking around with loaded guns--in the streets! Not hunting rifles, but loaded guns to kill people.
C'mon now, that's a bold exaggeration. Most people who carry guns and are law-abiding people and not gangsters and thugs, carry them for their own defense. There is no aggressive or hostile intention on the part of MOST people who carry guns for this purpose. People who carry guns so they can carry out acts of aggression and further their criminal enterprise are the main threat to any of us, and those people do not carry their guns openly. (Well, except for the police)
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
If I am in the north, there are people who don't even think our country should protect its borders. Just let anybody walk in. Fine. No background check to see if they've killed someone, no vaccinations or medical check to protect the rest of us from whatever disease they might contract or carry.
Those people are all over - they're called liberals. Or progressives, or whatever they are calling themselves lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
And everybody's screaming about race when I thought race was a non issue.
Everyone? Again, it is mostly liberals. People weren't "screaming about race" before Obama got on the scene and promoted and encouraged Identity Politics, and made it official government policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Most of us were brought up to believe that we're all the same inside and skin color doesn't matter.
Well, that is clearly a lie. Who told you that? On the other hand, skin color is of little import, and it *shouldn't* matter. However, that is not the same thing as "doesn't matter".
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
And of course we're supposed to hate Muslims--I am rightfully suspicious of a lot of Muslims but just plain outright hatred? No, of course not.
Who told you that you're supposed to hate Muslims? Its true that they have no business in the West, because their beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with the values of most Western societies, but nobody is saying to "hate" them.
Part of the other shift in society is this focus on demonizing emotions. Not liking or promoting something is now construed as hatred. And even if someone does actually legitimately hate a person or thing, so what? Hate is just an emotion. What, people can't have emotions now? If its okay to love something surely its okay to hate it too. Why discriminate between emotions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I know a good many conservatives and liberals among my family and friends, and how people handle their politics is a lot like how they handle their alcohol. Or don't...
Another observation I've noticed is that those most conservative will avoid talking politics altogether, more than liberals seem inclined to do, and it is not because of fear or concern that liberals can't have civil conversation! I think they fear just the opposite. Those are the conservatives I tend to worry about the most...
I disagree its fear of a civil conversation - conservatives would welcome that. No, its a chilling effect from liberals getting all hysterical anytime someone disagrees with them. Conservatives don't want to get smacked in the face with a bike lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1
I believe it is just the opposite. Big surprise. I hesitate to get into political conversations with Progressive friends of mine, as they are the ones that get overly emotional, and get unnecessarily nasty. You're projecting, which is another "liberal' trait.
Could not agree more. That's what I have observed as well. I ignore people I know are Progressives. I don't engage them in any way whatsoever, and excise them from my life like cancer - which is how I characterize the impact of their "views".
And since I have purged my circle of friends, associates, and acquaintances of Progs, things have been vastly improved.
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