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Old 01-20-2018, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,759,436 times
Reputation: 6745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Surprise, it's already happening. Many farms have been purchased and turned into nature preserves. Food production hasn't dropped.
Where has this happened? Not in USA Farm country I can assure you. The threat to food producing land here is renewable energy......
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:15 AM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,428,055 times
Reputation: 9931
Let start killing the people I prison then we can nuke the Middle East and North Korea , that be a start
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:33 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,283,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Where has this happened? Not in USA Farm country I can assure you. The threat to food producing land here is renewable energy......
New England has the densest forest cover since colonial times due to the abandonment of agricultural lands.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,759,436 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
New England has the densest forest cover since colonial times due to the abandonment of agricultural lands.

They have Ag land there? No comparison to the midwest at all.........Again.. No one is taking AG land from production to let it return to habitat or parks...
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:52 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,283,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Please feel free to lead by example.
It's a collective action problem. In fact it's the prisoner's dilemma. Those who act first and act altruistically (have fewer children) are those who lose. Those who act later and act selfishly (have more children) are those who win.

It's not like this is a new idea. People have been dreaming about a return to the "Golden Age" of smaller populations since classical Greece, which was regarded as a "Silver Age" at the time.

The difference now is technology allows first movers to remain competitive. Automation and robotics make declining populations possible without opening yourselves up for invasion by the breeding hordes. That's why only now are we seeing voluntary population declines across the developed world.

So the collective action lock has been picked.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:57 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,283,617 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
They have Ag land there? No comparison to the midwest at all.........Again.. No one is taking AG land from production to let it return to habitat or parks...
New England has a more complex economy than the grain belt, and began moving away from agriculture in the 19th century, first with industry and then services. They are closer to the economic future than the upper Midwest.

I agree the grain belt will remain agricultural for a long time because the costs of growing food there are lowest. I foresee the consolidation of agriculture among agribusiness interests, who in the name of productivity will increase yield per area of land more aggressively than family farms. They will also not have a sentimental attachment to farm life. Eventually hydroponics will outproduce topsoil agriculture.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:06 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 10,696,639 times
Reputation: 2383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Japan is often held up as a warning of the dangers of a falling population. However, Japan currently has record low unemployment because of the shrinking labor force, has deflationary property prices unlike most of the developed world, making it easier for young people to start out, and enjoys a prosperous and peaceful society.

What is so wrong with a shrinking population? Japan doesn't sound all that bad right now. The only cogent argument I hear against declining populations is that they will cause the collapse of welfare states. I see that as a positive since the PAYGO nature of welfare states is immoral and environmentally destructive since they depend on constant population growth to function.

We can't grow forever. And in fact life is becoming so stressful and expensive that a lot of people all over the world are choosing smaller families, if they have a family at all. I think the world would be a much better place if the population were cut in half or more. The people who would be born would enjoy more space, nature, inheritance, and parental love.
I'm only going to speak about the USA here:

I disagree with almost all of the benefits you claim here. High property prices are the result of local zoning regulations and US government subsidy of housing.
There is no evidence that kids in larger families experience less parental love.
The desire for more space is your own personnel preference. Some people prefer to live around lots of other people of don't. There are plenty of places to live in the USA where you can have an abundance of space.
I've never heard of people getting more inheritance spoken of as a goal to strive for.
And I disagree that constant population growth is immoral. It clearly is not immoral.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:12 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,283,617 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
I'm only going to speak about the USA here:

I disagree with almost all of the benefits you claim here. High property prices are the result of local zoning regulations and US government subsidy of housing.
There is no evidence that kids in larger families experience less parental love.
The desire for more space is your own personnel preference. Some people prefer to live around lots of other people of don't. There are plenty of places to live in the USA where you can have an abundance of space.
I've never heard of people getting more inheritance spoken of as a goal to strive for.
And I disagree that constant population growth is immoral. It clearly is not immoral.
The situation in the USA is not bad because we have high productivity and low population density. I think you would have a different outlook if you lived in Bangladesh.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:30 AM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,361,544 times
Reputation: 8066
Massive population reduction...someone's been listening to comedian Bill Burr!

https://youtu.be/fdphbmIZ4nI

NSFW
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:31 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,486,040 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
It's a collective action problem. In fact it's the prisoner's dilemma. Those who act first and act altruistically (have fewer children) are those who lose. Those who act later and act selfishly (have more children) are those who win.

It's not like this is a new idea. People have been dreaming about a return to the "Golden Age" of smaller populations since classical Greece, which was regarded as a "Silver Age" at the time.

The difference now is technology allows first movers to remain competitive. Automation and robotics make declining populations possible without opening yourselves up for invasion by the breeding hordes. That's why only now are we seeing voluntary population declines across the developed world.

So the collective action lock has been picked.
It may allow it in advanced nations with a high living standard. The problem is that much of the world is still in poverty, and you're not going to be successful in getting them not to reproduce. Given the exponential nature of reproduction, net population growth is only going down by some cataclysmic and exceedingly violent events. That's not such a great thing for those caught up in it.
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