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Old 01-29-2018, 12:51 PM
 
13,973 posts, read 5,634,219 times
Reputation: 8622

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
If you want some reading material about basic income in place of social welfare... the UK did this with universal credit

what they've found out is that people aren't any better off, they are reliant on the social welfare, except now that they have a paycheck instead, they no longer have access to those welfare programs
Yeah, and there is an entire segment of the entertainment industry devoted to chronicling the poor of the UK. For example:

The Scheme

Sighthill

The Estate
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:51 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
when people say there isn't enough jobs, what they mean is they aren't being offered their dream jobs, hence there are "no" jobs

if there isn't a job that you want to work, go start your own job

why is it that people want a job to be handed to them? instead of starting your own business if you don't like your options?
Yes, we can support 60 lawn care businesses per city.

You also have to have money to start a business. People are taking the low paying jobs. They are not going unfilled. They don't allow you to meet ends.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:57 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,549,150 times
Reputation: 15501
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They don't allow you to meet ends.
if they know that, why are they so insistent on staying in those low paying jobs?

how does giving them $500/month going to move them to a better job when they can't get there as it is now?

the basic income experiment isn't going to help them better themselves, it would be better to use the pot of money on a large project like transportation or training center.

what good does it do by giving 1000 people $500/month instead of using $500,000/month to bring experts in to teach/train?

at most those 1000 people, would be "reinventing" the financial wheels when someone can spend a day in showing them how to manage their finances
or teaching them skills that get them hired to better jobs?
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,851 posts, read 26,307,990 times
Reputation: 34062
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
and what do they do with extra money? pay down their debt? which they were already doing?

the extra money isn't being used to do anything "different" for them that they weren't already doing

maybe they buy a nicer car? great, they "upgraded" a car, how does that help the community that is funding them that money?
Or maybe they can pay the rent, at least while they are receiving the money;

"Last year, Stockton rents rose more than 10 percent, putting the city’s rental price growth among the top 10 in the nation. This is quite a surprise in what Time called “America’s most miserable city” just three years ago. The average rent remains a modest-by-Bay-standards $1,051, but Stockton has a per-capita income of just $23,046, more than $6,000 less than the U.S. median and a full $8,500 less than the California median. If you made the per-capita income of the city, average rent alone would eat 55 percent of your income"
https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...income/543036/

PS The community is not funding this, the money is from the private sector: "$1 million in funding from the tech industry–affiliated Economic-Security Project, the Stockton Economic-Empowerment Demonstration (SEED) will be the country’s first municipal pilot program." Same source as above.

By the way...what are you doing with the extra money from the Trump tax cuts? Maybe we should start keeping track of how people are spending that money so we can help them with some money management?
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:12 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
if they know that, why are they so insistent on staying in those low paying jobs?
"They". Stop it. There is no "they". Most or at least many do not but the good jobs this country once had have left in large numbers. People can no longer apply for the job making televisions or refrigerators. Even jobs where people were once able to make a decent living like shoes salesperson are gone.

I once sold cars. Those jobs have changed. I made commission. Now most make a smaller flat rate.

Quote:
how does giving them $500/month going to move them to a better job when they can't get there as it is now?
Sheesh. We just discussed how.

Quote:
the basic income experiment isn't going to help them better themselves, it would be better to use the pot of money on a large project like transportation or training center.

what good does it do by giving 1000 people $500/month instead of using $500,000/month to bring experts in to teach/train?

at most those 1000 people, would be "reinventing" the financial wheels when someone can spend a day in showing them how to manage their finances
or teaching them skills that get them hired to better jobs?
It's an initial experiment to start the inevitable.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:23 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,549,150 times
Reputation: 15501
Quote:
It's an initial experiment to start the inevitable.
experiments need a goal...

what do they hope to achieve? do you think they are going to be out of poverty in 5 years with an extra $6,000/year?

Quote:
Or maybe they can pay the rent, at least while they are receiving the money;
the city could have used that money as a tax credit for a developer to build an apartment complex for low income people... and rent won't go up as much
Quote:
By the way...what are you doing with the extra money from the Trump tax cuts?
on booze and strippers, what does it matter? I'm not in "poverty" and have extra money to spend <-- I'm funding the economy
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:28 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,155 posts, read 19,742,228 times
Reputation: 25693
It’s this type of thinking that led to this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...85S05120120629

Maybe they should track where the politicians are spending money?
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Old 01-29-2018, 02:03 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,241,574 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
experiments need a goal...

what do they hope to achieve? do you think they are going to be out of poverty in 5 years with an extra $6,000/year?
I am not a part of the program.

Quote:
the city could have used that money as a tax credit for a developer to build an apartment complex for low income people... and rent won't go up as much

on booze and strippers, what does it matter? I'm not in "poverty" and have extra money to spend <-- I'm funding the economy
It's not up to you how others decide to spend their money.
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Old 01-29-2018, 02:50 PM
 
6,393 posts, read 4,118,708 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Yes, we can support 60 lawn care businesses per city.

You also have to have money to start a business. People are taking the low paying jobs. They are not going unfilled. They don't allow you to meet ends.
This is false. We started our real estates business with next to no money. It's called lots and lots of hard work and dedication.
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Old 01-29-2018, 02:57 PM
 
6,393 posts, read 4,118,708 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
But others can't?
Others absolutely can. No money from the sky needed.

Quote:
"Professional"? A vague concept. One could be a professional fry cook.

I work in manufacturing not that it matters. It's not about me.
So, the responsibility of a project manager that handles $100mil project has the same level of responsibility as a professional cook at kfc? Thank you for showing the readers here how the nutty elements of the far left think.
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