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Interesting perspective. I have reviewed several articles, over a period of years, based on the search term ‘what caused the reduction in NYC crime?’ None credit industrial rezoning. I suspect this is a first the egg - crime ridden areas were ‘cleaned up’ - then the chicken developed - people moved back into the city; former factories were turned, (rezoning), into lofts, etc; i.e., gentrification. Police hiring means a focus on ‘disorder’; police have to do something. So, guided by disorder they police. Stop and frisk being part of that effort.
'Stop and frisk' wasn't what reduced crime in NYC. It was several factors: increased police hiring, rezoning of industrial areas etc. As a matter of fact, without 'stop and frisk' the crime rate is lower.
The London Mayor has no say on operational police matters, that's down to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, who has already stated that she will use whatever tactics neccessary to stop gangs and that includes increased stop and search.
There is nothing wring with intelligence led stop and search or indeed manned knife arches at transport hubs or other locations.
It also should be known that Senior Officers at the Metropolitan Police such as the Commissioner Cressida Dick, reguarly talk to their counterparts at the NYPD, and there is an NYPD Laison officer at New Scotland Yard. Cressida Dick has visited the NYPD in NYC on several occasions as well as many other cities.
Yet, he is quoted liberally - as in several times, so there is no doubt as to my use of the word liberally. If he has no say, then that is very good. Politicians are well, politicians.
As to the London police talking to the NYC police. I am sure they do, just as the SF, Paris or Tokyo and any other large city police talk with their counterparts. What is your point in making the comment.
Oh, I agree there is nothing wrong with stop and search. The NYC mayor, a politician, does think it is wrong, though. Which, since I did not make it clear, was my original point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
The London Mayor has no say on operational police matters, that's down to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, who has already stated that she will use whatever tactics neccessary to stop gangs and that includes increased stop and search.
There is nothing wring with intelligence led stop and search or indeed manned knife arches at transport hubs or other locations.
It also should be known that Senior Officers at the Metropolitan Police such as the Commissioner Cressida Dick, reguarly talk to their counterparts at the NYPD, and there is an NYPD Laison officer at New Scotland Yard. Cressida Dick has visited the NYPD in NYC on several occasions as well as many other cities.
That isn’t true at all. London has had 44 murders this year NYC has 57. It was 2 months in one year that NYC has less than London.
Given the respective sizes of the two cities, I'd say both are doing pretty well on the metric of murders. By the end of the year, NYC will most likely edge London out by a tidy margin, but nonetheless, their murder rates are nothing to write home about.
At any rate, London still kills (no pun intended) NYC in robberies, assaults, and rapes.
Yet, he is quoted liberally - as in several times, so there is no doubt as to my use of the word liberally. If he has no say, then that is very good. Politicians are well, politicians.
As to the London police talking to the NYC police. I am sure they do, just as the SF, Paris or Tokyo and any other large city police talk with their counterparts. What is your point in making the comment.
Oh, I agree there is nothing wrong with stop and search. The NYC mayor, a politician, does think it is wrong, though. Which, since I did not make it clear, was my original point.
My point was that Cressida Dick the current Commissioner dismissed all this nonsense on television the other day when she stated exactly what I have stated above. In terms of the relationship between the Met and NYPD it is very close indeed.
In terms pf police budgets 70% of the Met's Budget comes from Central Government, and the Britsh Transport Police and City of London Police are also mainly funded centrally and not by the Mayor.
Police and Crime Commissioners also have no say on operational matters, indeed all operational matters are made through the Commissioner of Police in London and the Chief Constables of the provincial forces.
The National Police Chiefs Council being the collective organisation that coordinates and supports operational matters on a national basis.
This is all well and good; not contrary to the subject of the thread, nor particularly on topic. The point and subject is London is doing thorough policing and New York City is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
My point was that Cressida Dick the current Commissioner dismissed all this nonsense on television the other day when she stated exactly what I have stated above. In terms of the relationship between the Met and NYPD it is very close indeed.
In terms pf police budgets 70% of the Met's Budget comes from Central Government, and the Britsh Transport Police and City of London Police are also mainly funded centrally and not by the Mayor.
Police and Crime Commissioners also have no say on operational matters, indeed all operational matters are made through the Commissioner of Police in London and the Chief Constables of the provincial forces.
The National Police Chiefs Council being the collective organisation that coordinates and supports operational matters on a national basis.
This is all well and good; not contrary to the subject of the thread, nor particularly on topic. The point and subject is London is doing thorough policing and New York City is not.
London is city of about 9 million, the murder rate has decreased significantly over recent decades, indeed it has averaged around 170 murders a year, last year the city had 130 murders.
In terms of knife crime there has been a lot of success in Scotland where the Violence Reduction Unit was set up, and the Metropolitan Police have been up to Scotland to examine how the knife crime reduction was acheived and are now setting up similar units in London. A similar unit in the London Borough of Islington, has already been successful in reducing violence and knife crime and this is now to be extendded to other boroughs.
But comparing murder rates for periods of less than a year is dumb. On a more sensible annual basis, 290 New Yorkers were murdered last year, more than double the 116 Londoners. America’s “intentional killing” rate is 4.8 per 100,000 inhabitants, Britain’s is 0.9.
Even within Europe, Britain is far better than eastern Europe, and better than France, Sweden and even peaceable Denmark. It is marginally worse than Germany, Italy and Spain. As for London, its murder rate had been steadily falling since the 1990s. It rose in the 2000s, fell during the recession, and is still a quarter lower than it was just a decade ago.
It is not “in crisis”. Yet something is clearly wrong when a spate of “reported incidents” has delivered an annual rise of 20% in both gun and knife attacks in England and Wales. Often a surge in recorded crime tends to reflect police activity – “drug crimes” record police swoops – but murder rates are real.
Even the normally calm Office for National Statistics says: “While it is possible that improved recording and proactive policing has contributed to this rise, it is our judgment that there has also been a genuine rise.”
The problem seems largely confined to London.The Metropolitan police are predictably under intense pressure, leading to the usual solutions-fest. The most obvious come from the police themselves, inspiring headlines such as “knife and gun crime rockets … as police numbers hit historic lows”. No one mentions the fact that murders were higher when police numbers were too. Experience suggests that London’s present surge in violence will subside.
Well, I don't know. There is a quote toward the end of the article, that I will paraphrase. Have your body cameras turned on and have confidence we will stand behind you. Or go back to the article to read the full quote.
What caught my eye was the 'stop and search'. NYC's Mayor DeBlasio of course, stopped stop and frisk, after 15 or so years effective crime control, because it was racist.
Perhaps the laws are different in the UK than they are in the United States.
We have Constitutional protections that limit searches in the USA. The restrictions in the UK are probably quite different.
Other countries have laws including Human Rights Laws, indeed there has to be reason to believe their is a weapon based on intelligence.
Furthermore the UK Police have to Adhere to Setion 8 of the European Covention on Human Rights as enshrined in the UK Human Rights Act 1998. Article 8 relates to privacy and family life.
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