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And I nor anyone else suggested that people should not take common sense precautions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam
Like what? Keeping in mind that most rapes are not at 2:AM to women walking down the street in hooker clothes or even drunk at a party in hooker clothes. 85% of assaults are people that the woman knows. School friends, co-workers, etc.
The point just flew over your head on that one. We have to continue to talk about consent because there is a problem where women who are unable to consent are assaulted. And date rape happens. THOSE are the cases where we must continue to teach men not to rape. If I am too drunk to say yes, the default is no. End of story. Even if I was making out hot & heavy 15 minutes ago, if I am unconscious, it's a big NOPE. You know what's stupid? That we have to keep saying it. I'll teach my kids that they cannot have sex with someone who cannot consent. Meanwhile, I'll continue to teach them not to get herself into that sort of situation.
Like what? Keeping in mind that most rapes are not at 2:AM to women walking down the street in hooker clothes or even drunk at a party in hooker clothes. 85% of assaults are people that the woman knows. School friends, co-workers, etc.
I'm not saying taking precautions will always prevent rape. For instance when I was in college and had late classes that I had to walk in the dark alone to my car I carried mace. I still could have gotten raped but if I were attacked I had some defense. In my partying days I was cautious not to take drinks or open beers from anyone or go off with strangers. Simple things like always checking the back seat, staying in more populated areas. Or telling young girls (and boys) that if an adult makes them uncomfortable or touches them certain ways its ok to tell even if its Uncle Joe. Just common sense thing to keep safe be it from rape, assault, robbery, etc.
Just like we caution little children not to talk to strangers or get in strange peoples cars. It wont prevent abductions but it could help avoid some.
She'll be street smart, like her daddy and have a wicked intuition like her mama. And as soon as she turns five, she'll begin her Aikido training.
I plan on having my daughter take martial arts classes as well, as I have done with my older son. I will teach her to take other common sense precautions as well. It's all you can do. If something still happens to her despite all that, I will be on her side not the person who did it to her.
No question that rape can be avoided in many cases through common sense, and I teach my daughters to practice safety at all times. However, looking at a woman after she has been raped and saying "You could have avoided this by doing X, Y, or Z" isn't something that anyone should do. The time to discuss common sense and rape avoidance is before the rape, not immediately after it.
I totally agree. Personally I do enough of that myself and people tell me not to. One big example is the fact that I could have looked for a job right after high school instead of taking a year off but should I be thinking that? It happened. There's nothing I can do about it now. If I shouldn't even be doing that to myself than other people should not be doing it to another person either particularly if it's about assault. I'm still going to do it of course (I'm always looking at the past because my regrets are unforgivable to me) so you're free to think it about another person but don't say it directly to the person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
The much bigger problem for #metoo is all the claimed outrage over mundane incidents. There is little effort made to distinguish actual sexual assault and normal attempts to initiate sexual relations.
I agree with you here. I'm glad it's a movement but it has gone overboard. Like I said in another thread I worry what it does to relationships. Men are likely to now be eerie about asking a woman out (and maybe that woman secretly had an interest in him) because of this movement so some relationships will never get a chance to happen.
The point just flew over your head on that one. We have to continue to talk about consent because there is a problem where women who are unable to consent are assaulted. And date rape happens. THOSE are the cases where we must continue to teach men not to rape. If I am too drunk to say yes, the default is no. End of story. Even if I was making out hot & heavy 15 minutes ago, if I am unconscious, it's a big NOPE. You know what's stupid? That we have to keep saying it. I'll teach my kids that they cannot have sex with someone who cannot consent. Meanwhile, I'll continue to teach them not to get herself into that sort of situation.
It seems as if you miss the obvious point-that criminals don't follow the laws. Teaching them "no means no" doesn't stop burglary. It doesn't stop armed robbery. It doesn't stop murder. And it sure doesn't stop rape. Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care that they are doing wrong. They don't care about your rights, your property or your dignity. Because they are criminals!
I agree with you on teaching your kids that they cannot have sex with someone without their consent. Just as I would agree with teaching them that they can't take other people's property without their consent or enter their homes. It's a simple matter of teaching kids right from wrong.
Thing is-far too many parents don't teach their kids right from wrong. That actions have consequences. And we have far, far too many criminals-of all types. Worse, we have a criminal "justice" system that is a joke and does far too little to protect society from them.
However-treating everyone as a probable criminal due to their sex is idiotic, insulting and somewhat degrading.
Because you don't tell rape victims how to avoid something that should never be done. It's insensitive.
Can you suggest ways that ALL people can keep themselves safe in the event that they encounter a person who may harm them? Sure... that's smart to discuss.
But, to single out rape victims to tell them what they could have done to prevent it?
Noooo.
We are a married gay couple. We always err on the side of caution and not show PDA. Too many straight people with snowflake feelings on the subject. And the gay panic defense is still legal in 48 states. I have known gay dudes that have admitted to having put themselves in harm's way and got assaulted.
In fact, just about everything in life we can take precautions to avoid bad things happening. I'm a passive driver and I never cut anyone off. Am I accident proof? Of course not. But I would argue that the chances of me getting into a crash is a lot less likely than aggressive and reckless drivers.
But when it comes to rape, any mention of common sense precaution is viewed as blaming the victim. It is the only subject in life where people actually make the ridiculous argument that the woman should never take any precaution. And the mere mention of this has caused some people in this thread to accuse me of having the rapist mentality.
I'm just saying. Jocks aren't known to respect the opposite gender. What the hell does the girl expect to happen when she goes to a party with a bunch of jocks, get drunk, get high, and pass out?
Last edited by MetroWord; 05-23-2018 at 10:27 AM..
I totally agree. Personally I do enough of that myself and people tell me not to. One big example is the fact that I could have looked for a job right after high school instead of taking a year off but should I be thinking that? It happened. There's nothing I can do about it now. If I shouldn't even be doing that to myself than other people should not be doing it to another person either particularly if it's about assault. I'm still going to do it of course (I'm always looking at the past because my regrets are unforgivable to me) so you're free to think it about another person but don't say it directly to the person.
I agree with you here. I'm glad it's a movement but it has gone overboard. Like I said in another thread I worry what it does to relationships. Men are likely to now be eerie about asking a woman out (and maybe that woman secretly had an interest in him) because of this movement so some relationships will never get a chance to happen.
Men can ask women out without sexually harassing her or sexually abusing her. If a man, or woman, doesn't know how to do this they probably shouldn't be dating.
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