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Old 06-09-2018, 01:06 PM
 
4,534 posts, read 4,929,893 times
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It's only a matter of time until Trump tries to strike down the law stating it is illegal to discriminate against people born with genetic disease. They're preexisting conditions too.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:13 PM
 
13,954 posts, read 5,623,969 times
Reputation: 8612
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I would forgive Libertarians on not realizing that tragedy.
It's not tragic, it's the real world of scarcity.

There isn't an unlimited supply of world class healthcare providers, so highest bidder wins. Same for the most expensive equipment, treatments, pharmaceuticals, etc. Melinda Gates has far more purchasing power than the average aircraft technician, so she can buy more of the goods and services that fall under the category of healthcare.

But that doesn't mean the aircraft technician cannot get healthcare, they just can't afford the same "money is no object" care that Melinda Gates can.

Nothing tragic about scarcity. It's an immutable property of the universe, not some evil plot.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:29 PM
 
9,504 posts, read 4,340,821 times
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Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
The Trump administration is going to court to try to remove the requirement for insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. But they want to delay the action until after the midterms.

Trump went from "everyone is going to have health coverage and the government is going to pay for it" to trying to take health coverage away from as many as possible. I cannot imagine how he can look people in the eye while he tries to take health coverage away from someone who has been horribly sick.

Trump’s Justice Department is calling on the courts to throw out protections for people with pre-existing conditions.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...e-texas-606930

Combine this with the Medicare budget shortfall and good luck America.

People who support coverage of pre-existing conditions don't understand the concept of insurance. It's about risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't a risk, it's a certainty. Insurance companies are not altruistic endeavors.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,202 posts, read 19,206,363 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
People who support coverage of pre-existing conditions don't understand the concept of insurance. It's about risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't a risk, it's a certainty. Insurance companies are not altruistic endeavors.
And people who think our health insurance system is a traditional risk based insurance program do not understand the concept of what is called health insurance. If it was a traditional risk based program, there would never be coverage for preventative medicine, things like immunizations and well baby check ups.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:50 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
It's not tragic, it's the real world of scarcity.

There isn't an unlimited supply of world class healthcare providers, so highest bidder wins. Same for the most expensive equipment, treatments, pharmaceuticals, etc. Melinda Gates has far more purchasing power than the average aircraft technician, so she can buy more of the goods and services that fall under the category of healthcare.

But that doesn't mean the aircraft technician cannot get healthcare, they just can't afford the same "money is no object" care that Melinda Gates can.

Nothing tragic about scarcity. It's an immutable property of the universe, not some evil plot.
The only limits to the above are based on resources. With the proper priorities we can care for our people.
If some poor person needs heart or stem cell transplant or CAR T therapy we can provide it if we invest in those resources.

It is a matter of priorities and shouldn't be fiat USD limited.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:53 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
People who support coverage of pre-existing conditions don't understand the concept of insurance. It's about risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions isn't a risk, it's a certainty. Insurance companies are not altruistic endeavors.
Of course we can understand insurance, and the point of central controls. Some compromises between free enterprise profit seeking and public good has to be made. Like a utility.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:11 PM
 
9,504 posts, read 4,340,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
And people who think our health insurance system is a traditional risk based insurance program do not understand the concept of what is called health insurance. If it was a traditional risk based program, there would never be coverage for preventative medicine, things like immunizations and well baby check ups.



The things you listed REDUCE the insurance company's risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions do not. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,202 posts, read 19,206,363 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
The things you listed REDUCE the insurance company's risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions do not. Why is this so hard to understand?
Yes, that's why auto insurance companies regularly pay for new tires for their insureds cars, to help prevent accidents from driving on bald tires.

Oh, wait.....

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Old 06-09-2018, 04:47 PM
 
13,954 posts, read 5,623,969 times
Reputation: 8612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The only limits to the above are based on resources. With the proper priorities we can care for our people. If some poor person needs heart or stem cell transplant or CAR T therapy we can provide it if we invest in those resources.

It is a matter of priorities and shouldn't be fiat USD limited.
Can we print surgeons capable of heart/stem cell transplants like we can print money?

Are all surgeons capable of heart/stem cell transplants equally capable/skilled with the exact same reputation?

Government can make laws and print money, but can they actually produce surgeons such that the supply of surgeons suffers no scarcity whatsoever? Just by "investing in those resources?" Can government simultaneously produce all of the providers of every other facet of healthcare to satisfy unlimited demand and totally regardless of prices or any other notion of workers/manufacturers/service providers being rewarded for their labor?

Where is this endless supply of qualified medical providers coming from, assuming we "invest in those resources?"
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:26 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
The things you listed REDUCE the insurance company's risk. Coverage of pre-existing conditions do not. Why is this so hard to understand?
Because it is not so simple or cut and dried in many cases.

You have balance the cost of many preventatives vs the relatively few (but large) future money savings. Many patients have moved off of current coverage by the time they experience tragedy.

And also balance the inconvenience, risks and pain of preventatives vs the reduction of any future pain, suffering, and/or improved health, family and security. These being difficult to quantify in dollar terms.

Some things are easy like childhood vaccinations. Colonoscopy saved my life.

But look at PSA's. Many routine PSA's are not only useless but can be damaging. Especially if used over the age of 80.
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