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Old 07-06-2018, 07:05 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,294,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
Ironically -- Trump's ignorance with international trade is why he is making such a big fuss about stuff he doesn't really understand.

Fighting over dairy tariffs when you have a surplus with a country is about as stupid as you can get.

Bringing up an anecdote about foreign visitors buying US goods to take home and not wanting to pay duty on these goods as some kind of evidence of unfair trade is completely asinine.


a surplus for who? please educate us in our trade deficits and how that benefits American wages and working class since we are so ignorant like our President and you seem to understand.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:10 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,294,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
This has nothing to do with China. The EU, Canada, Mexico, and China have imposed severe tariffs on the USA in the last week. This can't end well for the USA. If The White House retaliates by increasing tariffs, the EU, Canada, Mexico, and China will retaliate again.

really? China needs our consumers. If the U.S. economy collapses they will be hurting worse.........you actually think Canada and Mexico can hurt us without hurting themselves?

we have a trade deficit with those countries......either you do nothing and complain during election time for lip service like previous Presidents or you do something about it like Trump until we sit down and get better trade deals with our "friends" that are screwing us.

the option of not doing anything is no longer an option.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:11 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,605,538 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
a surplus for who? please educate us in our trade deficits and how that benefits American wages and working class since we are so ignorant like our President and you seem to understand.
Start with this: we don’t have a trade defecit with Canada. We have a surplus.

Once you grasp that little factoid, check out this one: all of the “defecit” numbers Trump throws out there ignores services, of which we are a net exporter by a huge margin.

When you digest those, read some articles on this topic from credible sites like Bloomberg, The Economist, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc. Then you will understand why, from the perspective of economically literate people, trade deficits are not that important anyway, despite what Breitbart and Alex Jones tell you.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,832 posts, read 19,551,015 times
Reputation: 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I don't remember hearing any previous President mention anything about this. I doubt that most people are even aware that foreign countries have been using America as their Piggy bank for decades.

Why did it take the American mid-west to be literally destroyed economically before a President came along to address the issue of unfair trade?
why trump first...


because he is not a bought and paid for globalist liberal like Carter, Bush1, Clinton, bush2, Obama...
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:18 PM
 
7,490 posts, read 4,982,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
a surplus for who? please educate us in our trade deficits and how that benefits American wages and working class since we are so ignorant like our President and you seem to understand.
It sounds like you don't understand the 270% Canadian tariff that is imposed on the USA over-supplying milk to Canada. Canada knows how much milk it produces, and how much it needs. It needs more than it produces, so there's a deal with the USA to import clean milk to make up the difference. There is no tariff on this milk.

The USA subsidizes farmers, and farmers over produce milk where they are often dumping the over supply in the fields. Trump wants to stop subsidizing farmers. He had the bright idea that if he could dump that milk in Canada, he could stop subsidizing farmers. Then he learned that dumping the over supply in Canada meant an over-quota of milk and the over-quota has a 270% tariff.

The reason for this is that the USA would dump the milk into Canada at prices lower than Canadian farmers can afford. Canadian farmers are not subsidized. USA milk dumping in Canada would destroy the dairy industry, and then the USA would jack up the prices.

Trump got his panties in a knot when he realized that he couldn't call the shots in Canada, and now we have a trade war. That trade war is in part because Trump forgot to tell his people that there is no tariff on Canadian milk as long as the USA does not over supply milk to Canada.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:30 PM
 
7,490 posts, read 4,982,801 times
Reputation: 8036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
really? China needs our consumers. If the U.S. economy collapses they will be hurting worse.........you actually think Canada and Mexico can hurt us without hurting themselves?

we have a trade deficit with those countries......either you do nothing and complain during election time for lip service like previous Presidents or you do something about it like Trump until we sit down and get better trade deals with our "friends" that are screwing us.

the option of not doing anything is no longer an option.
China put the USA on a travel watch list last week, discouraging people from holidaying in the USA. Canada and Mexico cannot hurt the USA alone, but with China and the EU are standing beside them filing WTO rule violations, there is strength in numbers.

Regarding WTO rules, Canadian/USA/Mexico partially-built cars cross borders 8 times and are not a national security risk to the USA, yet Trump is threatening a 25% tariff on cars. He can't do this unless the cars represent a national security risk.

Trump's is also a bit mixed up about deficit and surplus concepts. Trade deficit with "those countries" isn't entirely true. Take a moment to read up on the facts, relying exclusively on government websites, and it will become clear whether the deficit/surplus argument holds water. If there is one exception, that excuse is off the table.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:36 PM
 
1,087 posts, read 786,174 times
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US economy was competitive and Earth-is-flat trade policy to open up China's market was dominating not long ago. Then all things gone bad, and protectionism dominates. Forget about Columbus and trade with China like Marco Polo, it's hard enough just to reduce trade deficit.

Exporting manufacturing jobs to China started in Clinton 90s. Back then, cheap labors in China, exporting pollution was priorities plus there was no fear of competitiveness.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:36 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,294,434 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
It sounds like you don't understand the 270% Canadian tariff that is imposed on the USA over-supplying milk to Canada. Canada knows how much milk it produces, and how much it needs. It needs more than it produces, so there's a deal with the USA to import clean milk to make up the difference. There is no tariff on this milk.

The USA subsidizes farmers, and farmers over produce milk where they are often dumping the over supply in the fields. Trump wants to stop subsidizing farmers. He had the bright idea that if he could dump that milk in Canada, he could stop subsidizing farmers. Then he learned that dumping the over supply in Canada meant an over-quota of milk and the over-quota has a 270% tariff.

The reason for this is that the USA would dump the milk into Canada at prices lower than Canadian farmers can afford. Canadian farmers are not subsidized. USA milk dumping in Canada would destroy the dairy industry, and then the USA would jack up the prices.

Trump got his panties in a knot when he realized that he couldn't call the shots in Canada, and now we have a trade war. That trade war is in part because Trump forgot to tell his people that there is no tariff on Canadian milk as long as the USA does not over supply milk to Canada.


wrong! Canada has long maintained a high tariff wall on most dairy products. The duty on milk is 270 per cent. That keeps most imports from the United States and elsewhere out of Canada, while helping to prop up higher domestic prices. One notable exception is ultrafiltered milk and other protein-rich dairy ingredients used to make dairy products such as cheese and yogurt. North American free-trade rules do not cover these ingredients, so they enter Canada duty-free. And in recent years, U.S. dairies have developed a booming business selling these low-cost products to dairies in Canada ($133-million last year). That all changed about a year ago, when Canadian dairy farmers and producers moved to close the breach in the tariff wall with a new "ingredients strategy." They persuaded regulators to create a new lower-priced class of industrial milk as an incentive to get dairies to produce protein substances in Canada, using Canadian milk. The result was predictable: U.S. imports fell in 2016, and are declining sharply so far this year.

Supply management is the uniquely Canadian regime that governs virtually every aspect of milk, chicken and egg production. The system depends on three "pillars" a tariff wall to block imports, strict quotas that determine how much each farmer can produce and fixed prices paid to producers. The system was created in the 1970s to help stabilize farmers' incomes. But as the food industry has gone global, supply management has faced mounting internal and external pressure, including persistent trade complaints from the United States, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. The World Trade Organization has ruled that the high prices paid to Canadian farmers are subsidies, making exports very difficult. For Canadian consumers, supply management also means consistently higher retail prices for dairy, chicken and eggs.

When U.S. President Donald Trump rails about the "very unfair things" Canada is doing to U.S. dairy farmers, he is mostly talking about issues such as ultrafiltered milk. The Trump administration set out its priorities for renegotiating the North American free-trade agreement (NAFTA) in a recent letter to members of Congress. In it, the administration said it would seek to reduce various non-tariff barriers to agricultural trade, including rules limiting imports and "unjustified trade restrictions" on new technologies. That is an apparent reference to Canada's ingredients-pricing scheme. But the letter also pledges to "eliminate all export subsidies on agricultural products," which could be interpreted as a challenge to the pricing regime that underpins Canada's dairy industry. That has prompted speculation that Canada could trade away supply management for free trade in softwood lumber.

The dairy industry's political clout should be waning. Just 13 federal ridings have more than 300 dairy farms – eight in Quebec and five in Ontario. When the supply-management system was created, Canada had nearly 140,000 dairy farms. Today, it has fewer than 12,000, and every year, a few hundred disappear as farmers leave the business and sell their quota. And yet, all three major political parties (and virtually every MP) have vowed to support the system. The industry is heavily concentrated in Quebec and Ontario, which together produce about 70 per cent of the country's milk. Quebec alone is home to nearly half of Canada's dairy farms – 5,894 – and pockets nearly 40 per cent of dairy revenues.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:51 PM
 
764 posts, read 395,343 times
Reputation: 1134
I remember shopping in the mid to late 90s and all of a sudden all this cheap merchandise was in the stores, all made in China. I thought what the heck how can this be so cheap and people started buying and buying and China got richer and richer and richer and this was all Bill Clinton's doing. We saw lots of our manufacturing going out of business very very sad. EVERYTHING in my closet is from Viet Nam, China, Swaziland and Pakistan. We need our country producing again.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:54 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,549 posts, read 17,802,095 times
Reputation: 25616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
This has nothing to do with China. The EU, Canada, Mexico, and China have imposed severe tariffs on the USA in the last week. This can't end well for the USA. If The White House retaliates by increasing tariffs, the EU, Canada, Mexico, and China will retaliate again.

China is forming an Asian block. That could mean global retaliation against the USA, a battle started and escalated by Trump. His only friends will be Russia and North Korea.
The dollar is the Gold standard, let's see who gets hurt more.
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