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If Roe remains legal, and women chant "It's My Body", laws need to be changed, so the murder of a pregnant woman is ONE, not two charges of murder then.
Having it both ways is hypocritical, no matter what side of Roe one is on.
These laws are mostly state laws - where most of the laws addressing violence arise. There is Federal legislation, but it only covers limited circumstances - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetici..._United_States
The URL also contains a discussion of the state laws, a map of which states subscribe to which theory of fetus, & so on.
The state's ban is subject to an exemption for the health & life of the pregnant woman. But 3rd trimester abortions are rare - because they're dangerous to the woman, require a full OR staff & equipment, & surgeon(s). Typically, they're performed upon the recommendation of the attending doctor, because the fetus is dead, brain dead, or genetically compromised such that its lifespan will be very short. It's not upon the whim of the woman - the attending physician has to recommend it, TMK.
They are also rare, because Roe v. Wade rules that states CAN ban abortions in the 3rd Trimester, because it is a viable life outside of the womb at that point....and then most states went ahead and banned 3rd trimester abortions. Of course states can choose to make exceptions in their ban if they choose to make a ban at that time.
Kermit Gosnell was convicted of performing abortions in the 3rd trimester in a state that had banned it.
A woman, or man for that matter, is merely a cluster of cells whose life was allowed to grow and develop to become able to live its own life outside its mother. A cluster of cells is life.
No, it's a potential life. If you removed that cluster of cells they would not survive. Because they are only a potential life.
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Originally Posted by 4dognight
A baby always dies during an abortion.
Here we disagree. There is no "baby," so no "baby" dies.
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Originally Posted by 4dognight
This is why the term pro-abortion is more fitting for leftists than pro-choice considering the woman is the only one who makes a choice. The baby surely doesn't get any consideration in deciding.
Do you want to force every pregnant woman to give birth against their will?
False , as the baby would survive, in most cases, the last several months of the pregnancy.
.
But we're not talking about the last few months of pregnancy. Those are third trimester abortions and they are only done as a medical necessity. Remove the zygote or fetus in the first two trimesters and it is not viable.
Yes, abortion should be reduced to the bare minimum
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dognight
A woman, or man for that matter, is merely a cluster of cells whose life was allowed to grow and develop to become able to live its own life outside its mother. A cluster of cells is life. Human life. It's not a frog or some such thing. A baby always dies during an abortion. The mother usually doesn't.
This is why the term pro-abortion is more fitting for leftists than pro-choice considering the woman is the only one who makes a choice. The baby surely doesn't get any consideration in deciding.
Yah. Roe v. Wade doesn't consider the fetus to be a baby until it's born & viable. & Roe is also a mechanism for the state to perform its role in preserving the potential for life - the state can begin to legislate on abortion in the 2nd trimester, & can prohibit the procedure altogether in the 3rd, except for the health & life of the woman.
But yes, the rate of abortion in the US is falling, & could fall to its absolute minimum - if we make effective sex education & devices available to everyone who's sexually active. There's a public health component there too - STDs are on the rise, among surprising demographics of the general population, as people assume that those were the bad old days. They're not, they're quite here with us, & spreading. Unless we do something as a polity to defend ourselves & our posterity.
Fourth amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Key word in there being "unreasonable". Clearly, the founders were no speaking in absolutes with no exceptions. So then it becomes a subjective interpretation of what is reasonable. For instance, the courts have upheld that "area warrants" in sensitive places (airports, border entries, etc) allow for searches of individuals because the interests of society outweigh the interests of the individual.
Personally, I'm in favor of current law and not in favor of banning abortions. I don't think abortions are right but that is a matter left to a higher power. Where it gets touchy is when the rights of two individuals conflict. If one is to declare that an unborn baby is a person at some point, what about the explicitly-declared constitutional right to life and liberty of the baby?
"It was all a lie to push for legal abortion.
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a founder of NARAL, admitted that they fabricated how many women were dying from illegal abortion.
“There were perhaps 300 or so deaths from criminal abortions annually in the United States in the sixties,” he said, “but NARAL… claimed to have data that supported a figure of five thousand.”
"In the days leading up to the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in America, pro-choice advocates claimed hundreds of thousands of women had died from illegal abortions. Because of this, several lawmakers voted to decriminalize abortion prior to Roe, and even today, some lawmakers are hesitant to outlaw it because of this lie. These statistics were invented by the same people who would profit from the procedure’s legalization.
False Claim #1: 5,000-10,000 women died annual from illegal abortion before Roe.
FACT: These statistics were made up. The real number was a mere fraction of this.
So then you must also be very much against the death penalty. Because there is no gray area at all. That is ending a human life. What I have always found odd is the anti abortion people are usually fine with the death penalty.
The criminal is facing the death penalty because of his actions. How you cannot see a difference between taking the life of one being because of his criminal actions versus taking the life of another being not because of their actions but the wishes of someone else is astounding.
Context is everything. If it were your medical information, there are strong laws & enforcement in place for that. (Although the execution may @ times be somewhat lacking.)
If it is a right, it's a right all the time.
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Yes, abortion should be reduced to the bare minimum
