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According to a recent study the average student loan debt for Class of 2017 graduates is $39,400.
Found this multiple places. That's the avg in 1 class of 4-y graduates. How many have more? How many jump right into grad school and rack up more debt?
That is about the price of a new car. I will be judgmental here and say it amazes me how many parents think nothing of buying a new or late-model car for their kid(s), but will not pay for college education.
Often, grad school is paid for with grants, TAs, RAs, etc. (Not for professional school though, usually.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktoni
You are so out of touch with life today that you sound completely delusional. Let's analyze your ridiculous Option 2 in more detail and I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt on factors like the time it takes to find a job, salary, etc.
1. Graduate high school at approximately 18 years old and attend trade school for 1 year, get an entry level job immediately after trade school that pays $12 an hour - Where do you get the money to pay for trade school? How do you pay your bills and eat while attending school with no income?
2. Now that you are working full time and earning about 25k per year and taking home about 18k ($1,500 a month) how are you going to pay rent, buy food, cover transportation expenses, blah blah blah while funding Community College with $1,500 a month coming in? How do you attend Community College and finish in two years while working full time? You would have to live hand to mouth for 3-4 years. Now you are 22 years old.
3. Ok, now you are done with CC and transfer to a university to finish out a Bachelor's degree. Once again how are you going to work a trade full time and go to college full time? You really can't and so your two years becomes 3-4. Let's say you are now earning 35k, net 2k per month. How do you pay your bills, stay alive and pay university tuition, fees and books on 2k a month while incurring no debt? If you somehow manage to rope the unicorn and this works you are now about 26 years old.
4. Guess what - now that you have a Bachelor's degree all of the experience that you gained working a trade is worse than worthless. You are a 26 year old person with zero experience competing for jobs against 22 year olds with the same degree that most likely had time for extracurriculars and internships. In the real world this means you won't even get an interview.
You are absolutely nuts if you think any of this would work. In reality, your plan would end up with the person in heavy debt, functionally unemployable with respect to their Bachelor's degree field and stuck with a low paying job in the trades for their entire life. And spare me the BS about the trades paying 6 figure incomes. Most of my family is in the trades and you are talking about an income that maybe 1 in 1000 tradespeople can earn if they are incredibly lucky, typically at mid-career when you hit your late 30s or 40s. Most people working in the trades earn less than $20 per hour and have terrible or no benefits. The trades are not a viable alternative to a college education in the modern world. Your ideas are about 30-40 years out of date at least.
Good synopsis. Add in under 3.- none of your trade school credits and not all your CC credits transfer. Getting a bachelor's degree takes another 3 years, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
Men and women growing up in the 1940s and 50s married young, had three kids by age 25 and created large families. And somehow they were happier than the single cry baby millennials of this era.
Are you talking about people who came of age in the 40s/50s or people who grew up then? I grew up in the 50s/60s, much of my cohort of Older Boomers got married later. In fact, age at first marriage has been going up for decades. People who came of age in the 40s had to deal with the war, which removed many eligible men and some women from the marriage market for years at a time. Those who came of age in the 50s did marry young and start families young. I'd look it up if I weren't feeling so lazy right now.
Are you talking about people who came of age in the 40s/50s or people who grew up then? I grew up in the 50s/60s, much of my cohort of Older Boomers got married later. In fact, age at first marriage has been going up for decades. People who came of age in the 40s had to deal with the war, which removed many eligible men and some women from the marriage market for years at a time. Those who came of age in the 50s did marry young and start families young. I'd look it up if I weren't feeling so lazy right now.
In the 1950s, the average age to marry was about 22 for males and 20 for females, compared to 29 and 27 today.
That is about the price of a new car. I will be judgmental here and say it amazes me how many parents think nothing of buying a new or late-model car for their kid(s), but will not pay for college education.
Often, grad school is paid for with grants, TAs, RAs, etc. (Not for professional school though, usually.)
Good synopsis. Add in under 3.- none of your trade school credits and not all your CC credits transfer. Getting a bachelor's degree takes another 3 years, at least.
Are you talking about people who came of age in the 40s/50s or people who grew up then? I grew up in the 50s/60s, much of my cohort of Older Boomers got married later. In fact, age at first marriage has been going up for decades. People who came of age in the 40s had to deal with the war, which removed many eligible men and some women from the marriage market for years at a time. Those who came of age in the 50s did marry young and start families young. I'd look it up if I weren't feeling so lazy right now.
How many states offer dual accreditation, which is FREE trade school? My hairdresser went to cosmotalogy school, her brother is training to be a plumber and her sister is taking classes for dental hygienist, with plans to be a dentist. All during the HS years, through dual accreditation. [Also adding: My hairdresser is in her third salon. She gains experience and moves to higher paying salons. My tip to her was $25. How many other clients does she see each week? She's 23 y old, making the same as some 40 y old in the same salon.]
Then, you work and save and work and save. Go to CC parttime while working, go to a state college or get a scholarship to a lower level university through your CC performance. And CC credits will transfer to any state college/university. So do that.
It's called planning and understanding how to take control of your own life.
And as far as housing? Roommates. Split a 2-bedroom with 4 roommates completely minimizes any housing costs. There are many other solutions to finding inexpensive housing. Find them.
OLD MANTRA: There are people doing exactly what you INSIST cannot be done. They are planning, taking advantage of dual accreditations, looking for scholarships to trade schools -- yes they exist, and often go unused because Americans think the trades are beneath them.
As long as you keep insisting it can't be done, you will be right. Or you could start looking for workable solutions, make SURE the classes you are taking will transfer, make sure you have a skill that can be used to produce income so you're not making $7 coffee drinks.
This ain't rocket science. It's common sense.
ADD: All that experience gained working a trade is USELESS??? Are you out of your mind?
Worthwhile skill, work ethic, reliable work performance, references, history of being on time and doing a good job >> then getting a degree while using that skill, paying for it so no debt ....
Yeah I guess if I were hiring and the other option was a 22 y old who had no work experience, no references and partied through college, yeah I'd hire that person instead of someone with a proven work ethic, an ability to plan financially, and the smarts to make it happen. Good GAWD.
THIS is why kids today are so screwed up. Working toward a goal and gaining skills and work experience is a BAD THING???????
Having a work ethic and financial responsibility is stupid and worthless??? All I can do is SMH.
Last edited by newtovenice; 07-30-2018 at 10:42 AM..
How many states offer dual accreditation, which is FREE trade school? My hairdresser went to cosmotalogy school, her brother is training to be a plumber and her sister is taking classes for dental hygienist, with plans to be a dentist. All during the HS years, through dual accreditation. [Also adding: My hairdresser is in her third salon. She gains experience and moves to higher paying salons. My tip to her was $25. How many other clients does she see each week? She's 23 y old, making the same as some 40 y old in the same salon.]
Then, you work and save and work and save. Go to CC parttime while working, go to a state college or get a scholarship to a lower level university through your CC performance. And CC credits will transfer to any state college/university. So do that.
It's called planning and understanding how to take control of your own life.
And as far as housing? Roommates. Split a 2-bedroom with 4 roommates completely minimizes any housing costs. There are many other solutions to finding inexpensive housing. Find them.
OLD MANTRA: There are people doing exactly what you INSIST cannot be done. They are planning, taking advantage of dual accreditations, looking for scholarships to trade schools -- yes they exist, and often go unused because Americans think the trades are beneath them.
As long as you keep insisting it can't be done, you will be right. Or you could start looking for workable solutions, make SURE the classes you are taking will transfer, make sure you have a skill that can be used to produce income so you're not making $7 coffee drinks.
This ain't rocket science. It's common sense.
ADD: All that experience gained working a trade is USELESS??? Are you out of your mind?
Worthwhile skill, work ethic, reliable work performance, references, history of being on time and doing a good job >> then getting a degree while using that skill, paying for it so no debt ....
Yeah I guess if I were hiring and the other option was a 22 y old who had no work experience, no references and partied through college, yeah I'd hire that person instead of someone with a proven work ethic, an ability to plan financially, and the smarts to make it happen. Good GAWD.
THIS is why kids today are so screwed up. Working toward a goal and gaining skills and work experience is a BAD THING???????
Having a work ethic and financial responsibility is stupid and worthless??? All I can do is SMH.
The cosmEtOlogy, yes, my school district has that as well in their Vo-tech program. My hairdresser went there. Being a hairstylist isn't exactly the key to big bucks though: https://money.usnews.com/careers/bes...dresser/salary
Yes, you can give anecdotes till the cows come home, but for the sake of those who will not open this link, the median hourly wage for a hairdresser is $11.66, or $24,260/year. The 75th percentile (3/4 earn less) is $31,470. Re: the plumber, his HS training will help, but it's hardly the end of the road. https://study.com/articles/Construct...a_Plumber.html
Again for those who refuse to open links, "Required Education 4-to 5-year apprenticeship program
License Required in most states
Projected Job Growth (2014-2024)* 12% (for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters)
Median Salary (2015)* $50,620 (for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters)"
Way less than what people on this thread are posting for salaries in "the trades".
For the dental hygienist who wants to become a dentist, you're not going to do that in HS Vo-tech. Dental hygiene requires at least an AAS, with many having a BS. https://www.learnhowtobecome.org/dental-hygienist/
You'll have to read it yourself, too much to quote just 3 sentences. See salary map, which does not connect with what they say about salary. Even in CA, the highest paying state, the median is $64,230 and the 90th percentile is $85,850.
Also, being a hygienist is NOT the way to become a dentist. Dental school requires a bachelor's degree from college in just about anything as long as one takes the pre-reqs, and a four year dental degree from a dental college. https://study.com/how_to_become_a_dentist.html
That is about all I have time to discuss right now, except to say that I did not say anything in the purple, and don't know why you're attributing that to me. Nor did I say anything about housing. I'm not real impressed with your disparagement of a college degree either. Good GAWD yourself.
I'll be back later.
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