Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And considering that this system would cost around 3.26 trillion dollars a year, while in 2017 the government took in a total of 3.31 trillion. How does it get paid for? A lot of people seem to think we can just cut the defense budget to pay for it, but the entire defense budget was only 610 billion in 2017. Even cutting 50% of its budget (which we can't do anyway) would only get 305 billion, where do we get the other three trillion every year?
There are a couple of really good points here. For one, if employers were not covering health insurance, they could spend that money on higher wages, and for another, yes, there are lots of people who feel trapped in jobs that they detest because they are afraid of losing their health benefits. Uncoupling health insurance from employment would unleash a tremendous amount of talent in this country. Think of how many people probably dream of forming their own start-up, or becoming writers or artists or inventors, but they are chained to a corporate job because of health insurance.
None of this even addresses the fact that many small, mom and pop type businesses don't even offer health coverage because they can't afford to. That's a whole other problem with the current system.
Ending employment based health insurance is the only way we stand a chance of adopting any type of universal coverage. Having one's employer chose one's plan is not the best option for most people if they actually looked at costs. Many would be much better off getting the premium amount in wages and then buying their own tax deductible plans where they could choose the amount of coverage they want. It's not good for small business, many simply cannot afford it and then lose the battle for great employees to huge corporations. Those corporations can afford to crush small businesses. They benefit from people being trapped in employment for fear of losing insurance. A stuck employee has much less power to make demands.
Before the ACA I had to chose between insurance or self employment. Going without insurance is irresponsible and unthinkable to me. Two of my siblings had a genetic desease. I saw the endless hospital visits, medication and procedures they required. Those bills would have broken my parents if it wasn't for the excellent insurance my father's union job provided. Choosing between starting a business and having health insurance should not happen in a country that prides itself on innovation and one's ability to start their own business and rise up.
I spent a number of years trapped in employment because a health issue that was actually minor and required very little care made me uninsurable. For anyone wanting to say but "high risk pools?" No, after over a year on a waiting list I finally got a terrible plan but at least it was something for awhile. Then I turned 30 and the premium jumped to $800/mo (this was over 10 years ago). $800/mo a low coverage plan for a healthy 30 year old who used no meds and rarely saw a doctor was outragous. I ended up moving to a state where one insurance company had guaranteed acceptance and the price was reasonable. I was finally able to start my own business and have been very successful. That oppotunity should be available to all Americans.
It's also bad for businesses trying to compete internationally when business in other countries don't have to pay for health insurance. Insurance is very expensive and rises every year. Double digit rising costs happened way before the ACA. I used to work in HR/benefits and it was my job to purchase a plan for the company, costs always went up, sometime to an insane degree.
I don't support single payer and even if I did, I would realize that it's comepletely unrealistic. Medicare for all sounds nice but the shift would be too monumental. It would require restructuring our tax system and insurance is a huge industry with massive lobbying budgets and it also employs many people directly and indirectly. Many countries have insurance based universal coverage with smart regulation, a mandate with consequnces and cost transparency. People buying their own coverage would make them invested in educating themselves on costs. They would shop around and cost transperancy would allow people to see what they are paying. Many would do best with a high deductible plan, they could save and plan if they knew what various types of care would cost.
Everyone buying insurance would bring costs down because the pool would be so huge, include the healthy and when people pay for theimselves, they will start paying attention to costs. Free market health doesn't work, so much of our health is beyond our control and too much of the power lies with the industry. Insurance is not a product one should chose to take or leave. Everyone has a body and every body is fallible. Not having insurance unless you can afford every possible cost is expecting others to pay for you, it's irresponsible. The propaganda campaign against any sort of universal coverage is appalling. It's bad for the country and most businesses. It's better for our society when people have proper early health care that prevents illness progression, and can start a business without worrying about any illnesses in the family. There would be a learning curve but our only hope of containing costs is getting everyone involved with their costs, both of insurance and health care provided.
I am a conservative and I have read a lot of different stuff on the healthcare problem. Obviously my party could not present a solution after years of crowing about Obamacare. Everyone is deeply partisan on this issue and it seems in no way is anything going to get done until we as a nation are willing to look at it logically. I have a proposal on how that should be done.
Congress and the political apparatus are incapable of creating good law on this very complicated problem on their own. I propose that congress create a detailed study of the issue by an independent committee made up of non partisan healthcare field experts from the insurance industry, care providers, economists and from other nations with successful systems. These folks can do the following
1. Look at Obamacare and determine if it can be fixed
2. Study market based solutions and how they could work
3. Study single payer systems and how they would impact care as well as their effect on our economy
4. Decide which path gets us the most bang for our buck
5. Write up a detailed healthcare package to be recommended to congress for review.
If this were done it may help to take the partisanship out of the debate and return it to a more logical approach. We Americans are being way overcharged for our healthcare, and I for one am tired of being fleeced by this corrupt and inefficient system. Prove to me single payer works better and I will get on board. I want to hear from legitimate experts on the issue though, not partisan hacks. I want the most value for my dollar.
No matter what though one major concern with single payer is how we deal with the economic shock of tossing hundreds of thousands of people to unemployed status and rendering billions of dollars worth of healt insurance companies stocks worthless overnight. That could definitely cause a single payer recession. If congress accepted a committee recommended switch to single payer we would need to do it in a way that would mitigate the economic damage caused by the destruction of the insurance industry. Everyone hates health insurers but that is a very large segment of our economy.
The tax issue is secondary IMO as we obviously would pay much higher taxes but that massive healthcare bill would disappear from our paychecks and from our employers costs as well. Part of the committees job would be to determine which system is more economically sound.
This argument needs to move away from the political and partisan and toward a rational dollars and cents approach. I respect common sense and fiscal responsibility and that is the approach I look for in a healthcare solution.
Obamacare was doomed from the beginning. There are no cost controls. It was a dumb idea, nobody is interested in listening to anymore liberal ideas on how to fix healthcare, you blew it. No thanks, keep your ideas to yourselves.
I am a conservative and I have read a lot of different stuff on the healthcare problem. Obviously my party could not present a solution after years of crowing about Obamacare. Everyone is deeply partisan on this issue and it seems in no way is anything going to get done until we as a nation are willing to look at it logically. I have a proposal on how that should be done.
Congress and the political apparatus are incapable of creating good law on this very complicated problem on their own. I propose that congress create a detailed study of the issue by an independent committee made up of non partisan healthcare field experts from the insurance industry, care providers, economists and from other nations with successful systems. These folks can do the following
1. Look at Obamacare and determine if it can be fixed
2. Study market based solutions and how they could work
3. Study single payer systems and how they would impact care as well as their effect on our economy
4. Decide which path gets us the most bang for our buck
5. Write up a detailed healthcare package to be recommended to congress for review.
If this were done it may help to take the partisanship out of the debate and return it to a more logical approach. We Americans are being way overcharged for our healthcare, and I for one am tired of being fleeced by this corrupt and inefficient system. Prove to me single payer works better and I will get on board. I want to hear from legitimate experts on the issue though, not partisan hacks. I want the most value for my dollar.
No matter what though one major concern with single payer is how we deal with the economic shock of tossing hundreds of thousands of people to unemployed status and rendering billions of dollars worth of healt insurance companies stocks worthless overnight. That could definitely cause a single payer recession. If congress accepted a committee recommended switch to single payer we would need to do it in a way that would mitigate the economic damage caused by the destruction of the insurance industry. Everyone hates health insurers but that is a very large segment of our economy.
The tax issue is secondary IMO as we obviously would pay much higher taxes but that massive healthcare bill would disappear from our paychecks and from our employers costs as well. Part of the committees job would be to determine which system is more economically sound.
This argument needs to move away from the political and partisan and toward a rational dollars and cents approach. I respect common sense and fiscal responsibility and that is the approach I look for in a healthcare solution.
Good concept. Of course the insurance industry is going to be dedicated solely to preserving itself.
And considering that this system would cost around 3.26 trillion dollars a year, while in 2017 the government took in a total of 3.31 trillion. How does it get paid for? A lot of people seem to think we can just cut the defense budget to pay for it, but the entire defense budget was only 610 billion in 2017. Even cutting 50% of its budget (which we can't do anyway) would only get 305 billion, where do we get the other three trillion every year?
Excellent question! I've asked about how it gets funded MANY times. NO ONE can answer that.
How will Medicare for all be paid for? It can be paid for in a number of ways. We currently spend over $3.5 trillion on health care with $1.6 trillion of that being tax funded. A single payer national health care system costing 12-13% of GDP would still be the most expensive system in the world, but would reduce health care spending by $1 trillion to $2.5 trillion per year. A single payer system covering 80% of total health care costs (which is at the high end compared to other countries) would cost $2 trillion per year.
How do those who can't afford to do so pay for the remaining 20% for their or their dependents' health care?
Example:
Family of 3 (2 parents one child) with a total combined annual after tax income of $48,000 has a child with serious health issues. Health care costs for just one year of hospitalization, surgery, treatment, etc. exceeds $1 million. How does a family with an income of $60,000 pay for the $200,000+/year they owe for their child's health care?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
