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Old 09-19-2018, 02:56 PM
 
45,585 posts, read 27,209,359 times
Reputation: 23898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Actually you can easily quantify this.



https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/1...-of-pollution/
What are the $1.5 trillion in benefits?

The money saved from reducing regulations can be calculated by comparing hours spent for regulatory compliance this year versus the prior years.

How do they calculate the benefits? I am looking thru some of the studies, but I am not joining a group in order to access a PDF file.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:00 PM
 
Location: USA
18,499 posts, read 9,167,872 times
Reputation: 8530
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
What are the $1.5 trillion in benefits?

The money saved from reducing regulations can be calculated by comparing hours spent for regulatory compliance this year versus the prior years.

How do they calculate the benefits? I am looking thru some of the studies, but I am not joining a group in order to access a PDF file.
I can’t calculate the benefits of the 13th Amendment. Perhaps you can help me.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,500,240 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
This is a poor analysis, but what can I expect from the Trump administration. I see two problems at first glance.

1. Failure to incorporate the cost of externalities. I'll give an example; Trump recently eliminated regulation of unlined coal ash ponds. In 2008 - one of those ponds burst in Tennessee and the cost was in the billions; this is now more likely. Moreover - look to Trumps attempt to weaken fuel economy standards. Sure - it's profitable for the automakers, but will cost billions when you account for health issues related to more C02 in the environment. This leads me to point 2.

2. There's nothing dynamic about this, it looks at the direct cost in one slice of time. For example, they need to model the effects of relaxed environmental regulations as it relates to human health. 10 years down the road, the revival of "clean coal" will cost us dearly - and it will be a lot more than $1.3 billion.

So many people getting duped by Trump and his cronies.
Actually, if you are all so convinced about C02 in the air...
Tell the nuclear regulatory commission to ditch junk inefficient solid fuel reactors.

I would build a liquid fueled reactor that generates far higher temperatures and safely, compared to light or heavy water which has to be placed under such high pressures to keep the water moderator from turning into steam/degas making hydrogen gas explosions a reality like fukishima and chernobyl.
The heat that could be converted into energy.... just looking at research papers from the experimental liquid fueled reactors from Oak Ridge laboratories... could produce easily 4 times what a current solid fuel reactor makes. Plus the fact it can burn up nuclear waste from solid fuel reactors, and in turn, provide no weapons grade materials, but beneficial radio isotopes for medical use by the pounds!

Sell that stuff off cheap, make money in volume...
Sell electricity generated cheaper than say what would be the national average 12-15 cents per kilowatt hour? I'd sell for 5 cents per kilowatt hour.

Devote one turbine that could power a city, to an air filtration tower...
Atmospheric air comes in. Carbon monoxide, dioxide, hydrocarbons brought in, filtered out, exhaust-oxygen.
Even if it's not 100% efficient. Say it manages to be about 20-30% efficient. Better way better than your logical fallacy that we need to tax company xyz to get close to 0 emissions possible.
Plus with gasses being filtered, you could brew synthetic fuel sources from it.

The amount of jobs needed to run and maintain such an operation...
The volume of electricity that can be generated.

Instead. Get junk vehicles because engineers have to comply with CARB and EPA mandates/regulations with decreased mechanical longevity in a fools errand to emit cleaner exhaust than what the engine breathes in.
Who do you think pays for that? Consumers. All of the costs of R&D, materials used for production. All factors into cost of the vehicle. That you the consumer pays for.

Figure a liquid fuel reactor runs 600-800 degrees celcuis. It needs multiple heat exchangers to keep the molten material from going super critical and melting alloys designed to withstand that heat and then some, running at low pressures but super high temperatures... you put a heat exchanger like that in a giant pool of water, with a decent supply of water to generate steam for turbines, or recapture xenon gas emitted from fusion/fission reactions to make use of heat to run a closed loop gas turbine to help cool to sustain the reactors criticality...

I could put one of those reactors out in California.
I'd kill multiple birds with 1 stone.
1. Cheaper/safer power.
2. Filter air.
3. Grab ocean water because Muh ocean levels are rising, pump that in to desalinate/cool heat exchangers. Sell the salt off to the north east to keep their roads from freezing and rot car bodies to keep the body shops in business.
4. Sell off cheap radioactive isotopes to fight tumors/cancers far cheaper than currently.
5. Burn off nuclear waste.
6. Employ 100s of thousands if not millions.


It's 2018.
Don't pee down my back and tell me we don't have the technology to reverse this green house gas theory, the only way to do it is tax tax tax and tax some more.

Kinda counters that whole notion Trump supporters aren't into science, mathematics, and technology doesn't it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,998 posts, read 3,736,669 times
Reputation: 4163
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Kinda counters that whole notion Trump supporters aren't into science, mathematics, and technology doesn't it.

Nope. And nothing you said in your post convinces me otherwise.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:00 PM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,787,818 times
Reputation: 4921
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Actually, if you are all so convinced about C02 in the air...
Tell the nuclear regulatory commission to ditch junk inefficient solid fuel reactors.

I would build a liquid fueled reactor that generates far higher temperatures and safely, compared to light or heavy water which has to be placed under such high pressures to keep the water moderator from turning into steam/degas making hydrogen gas explosions a reality like fukishima and chernobyl.
The heat that could be converted into energy.... just looking at research papers from the experimental liquid fueled reactors from Oak Ridge laboratories... could produce easily 4 times what a current solid fuel reactor makes. Plus the fact it can burn up nuclear waste from solid fuel reactors, and in turn, provide no weapons grade materials, but beneficial radio isotopes for medical use by the pounds!

Sell that stuff off cheap, make money in volume...
Sell electricity generated cheaper than say what would be the national average 12-15 cents per kilowatt hour? I'd sell for 5 cents per kilowatt hour.

Devote one turbine that could power a city, to an air filtration tower...
Atmospheric air comes in. Carbon monoxide, dioxide, hydrocarbons brought in, filtered out, exhaust-oxygen.
Even if it's not 100% efficient. Say it manages to be about 20-30% efficient. Better way better than your logical fallacy that we need to tax company xyz to get close to 0 emissions possible.
Plus with gasses being filtered, you could brew synthetic fuel sources from it.

The amount of jobs needed to run and maintain such an operation...
The volume of electricity that can be generated.

Instead. Get junk vehicles because engineers have to comply with CARB and EPA mandates/regulations with decreased mechanical longevity in a fools errand to emit cleaner exhaust than what the engine breathes in.
Who do you think pays for that? Consumers. All of the costs of R&D, materials used for production. All factors into cost of the vehicle. That you the consumer pays for.

Figure a liquid fuel reactor runs 600-800 degrees celcuis. It needs multiple heat exchangers to keep the molten material from going super critical and melting alloys designed to withstand that heat and then some, running at low pressures but super high temperatures... you put a heat exchanger like that in a giant pool of water, with a decent supply of water to generate steam for turbines, or recapture xenon gas emitted from fusion/fission reactions to make use of heat to run a closed loop gas turbine to help cool to sustain the reactors criticality...

I could put one of those reactors out in California.
I'd kill multiple birds with 1 stone.
1. Cheaper/safer power.
2. Filter air.
3. Grab ocean water because Muh ocean levels are rising, pump that in to desalinate/cool heat exchangers. Sell the salt off to the north east to keep their roads from freezing and rot car bodies to keep the body shops in business.
4. Sell off cheap radioactive isotopes to fight tumors/cancers far cheaper than currently.
5. Burn off nuclear waste.
6. Employ 100s of thousands if not millions.


It's 2018.
Don't pee down my back and tell me we don't have the technology to reverse this green house gas theory, the only way to do it is tax tax tax and tax some more.

Kinda counters that whole notion Trump supporters aren't into science, mathematics, and technology doesn't it.
TBH, I'm not really sure what any of this means haha.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,500,240 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
Nope. And nothing you said in your post convinces me otherwise.
Of course it wouldnt. You're only capable of feeling. Not thinking.
Fall for the buzz phrases spoon fed to you by the media believing an untested theory to cause justification to push manufacturing and related jobs off shore and over seas.
A NIMBY lemming.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:29 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
It is a thrill to see an administration who wants less power bestowed upon itself.

This is a large piece of why Business Confidence has soared the last 20 months.

They can now focus on their core mission..their customers needs.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:32 PM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,384,174 times
Reputation: 5141
Yet, Obama and other Democrats cannot seem to understand why things are looking up!
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,595,236 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I always love how people are never specific about the "regulations" they are talking about. Its always just a broad based term with no specifics.

Yes, fewer labor rights, fewer consumer protections, more dirty water, fewer inspections of restaurants, hell even weakening regulations for sanctuary employers, its good for business to not comply with regulations. But is it good for the people if workers have less rights? We are told that China uses worker slaves, but these same people are fine with the worst labor rights in the developed world right here in America.
The whole system of requiring more honest policies with customers, protecting the environment, paying adequate wages, treating employees fairly and many other things, that took centuries for this country to develop, are now being trashed in just a few years and all for the purpose of giving business owners more profits.

At least 75% of the fools who support Trump are being directly hurt by the abandonment of these essential policies and all of us will suffer long-term effects, as our country's foundation is eroded. Our candle is being burned at both ends and we'll be holding an empty bag, if all this isn't reversed soon.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,848,211 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
It is a thrill to see an administration who wants less power bestowed upon itself.

This is a large piece of why Business Confidence has soared the last 20 months.

They can now focus on their core mission..their customers needs.
Most business are not be run for the benefit of their customers. They are being run for the benefit of the owners or shareholders. If they wanted to focus on their "customer needs" then why was it necessary to kill a regulation that would have required financial planners to work on behalf of their clients. I'm sure financial planners are relieved that they won't be required to work on behalf of their customers.
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