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View Poll Results: Is private property open for all to use, at will?
Yes 2 1.74%
No 113 98.26%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-19-2018, 05:45 PM
 
19,631 posts, read 12,222,208 times
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It is true you should have done your research about buying beachfront property and known NC's longstanding tradition that access to the whole beach is so "firmly rooted in the custom and history of North Carolina that it has become a part of the public consciousness". You have a right to dislike it but your state seems adamant about keeping things as they are and have been historically.

It isn't like having people come in your back yard to picnic, it is like buying land that people traditionally hunt on or that contains access to ATV trails, if you just try to block it off you are going to have problems. My friends put up gates, the riders tore them down, they had boulders placed in front of the trail and some kid crashed into them and got hurt.
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:58 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It is true you should have done your research about buying beachfront property and known NC's longstanding tradition that access to the whole beach is so "firmly rooted in the custom and history of North Carolina that it has become a part of the public consciousness". You have a right to dislike it but your state seems adamant about keeping things as they are and have been historically.
Well, the local and state governments cancelled that custom themselves when they approved individual plats of land for sale to private owners. If they had wanted to keep the dry sand beach as state land, they could have done so instead of portioning it off and approving the sales. They didn't come up with their "custom" until LONG after the fact that they already divied up the land.
Quote:
It isn't like having people come in your back yard to picnic
Actually, it is. What do you think they have in their coolers? Food and drinks. In my backyard, which extends 95 feet seaward of the dune up to the Mean High Tide Line.

That's a pretty big piece of land that is valued very highly because it's oceanfront, so my property taxes on it are consequently very high. I pay the high taxes, but others get to picnic and recreate on my land for free, and to add insult to injury, some local governments are charging the public fees to drive and park their 4WDs on my land. But I don't get any of that money.

It is in fact unconstitutional. It's a taking of private property for public use without just compensation.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:10 PM
 
19,631 posts, read 12,222,208 times
Reputation: 26427
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Well, the local and state governments cancelled that custom themselves when they approved individual plats of land for sale to private owners. If they had wanted to keep the dry sand beach as state land, they could have done so instead of portioning it off and approving the sales. They didn't come up with their "custom" until LONG after the fact that they already divied up the land.
Actually, it is. What do you think they have in their coolers? Food and drinks. In my backyard, which extends 95 feet seaward of the dune up to the Mean High Tide Line.
Was there any point in NC's history that they did not allow the public upon this privately owned beach land or that there was enforcement? They present this access as a forever tradition and as if chaos and disaster will result if they do not keep it.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:20 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Was there any point in NC's history that they did not allow the public upon this privately owned beach land or that there was enforcement? They present this access as a forever tradition and as if chaos and disaster will result if they do not keep it.
There was a long stretch of history when there wasn't even much "public" around. Going back 40 or so years ago, it was still pretty remote and you'd rarely see anyone around. No TV channels (too remote), maybe you could get one or two AM radio stations with a lot of static, no grocery stores - just tiny general stores, and you better make sure your car had enough gas plus you had an extra full gas can... no gas stations. That's about the time the land here was subdivided and sold, with the current property boundaries ending at the mean high tide line.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:27 PM
 
5,888 posts, read 3,224,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Well, the local and state governments cancelled that custom themselves when they approved individual plats of land for sale to private owners. If they had wanted to keep the dry sand beach as state land, they could have done so instead of portioning it off and approving the sales. They didn't come up with their "custom" until LONG after the fact that they already divied up the land.
Actually, it is. What do you think they have in their coolers? Food and drinks. In my backyard, which extends 95 feet seaward of the dune up to the Mean High Tide Line.

That's a pretty big piece of land that is valued very highly because it's oceanfront, so my property taxes on it are consequently very high. I pay the high taxes, but others get to picnic and recreate on my land for free, and to add insult to injury, some local governments are charging the public fees to drive and park their 4WDs on my land. But I don't get any of that money.

It is in fact unconstitutional. It's a taking of private property for public use without just compensation.
And you can't just fence it off and you can't build anything on it either due to the covenants and restrictions?
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:36 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
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Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
And you can't just fence it off and you can't build anything on it either due to the covenants and restrictions?
The state's Coastal Management Agency forbids it. No structures within 30 ft of the vegetation line on the seaward side of the dune (except for a dune walkover). No structures on the owner's dry sand beach. So... the owner has very expensive land on which they're highly taxed, but can't build anything on a rather large percentage of it. That's not at all unusual in coastal areas, though.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:51 PM
 
5,888 posts, read 3,224,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The state's Coastal Management Agency forbids it. No structures within 30 ft of the vegetation line on the seaward side of the dune (except for a dune walkover). No structures on the owner's dry sand beach. So... the owner has very expensive land on which they're highly taxed, but can't build anything on a rather large percentage of it. That's not at all unusual in coastal areas, though.
Maybe you could split the land into two parcels and donate all of the land under the easement or regulation to a charity and take a tax writeoff on it given that it has high market value (assuming these high taxes are due to the land and not the improvements).

You can still then use the property as anyone else can. Since you wouldn't be able to build on it anyway - and presumably that wouldn't change even if the laws were changed - that would vastly improve your situation from the status quo.

And maybe you can just remove the vegetation (or replant it so the line is no longer in the footprint of where you'd like to build). Have you considered that?
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:05 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Maybe you could split the land into two parcels and donate all of the land under the easement or regulation to a charity and take a tax writeoff on it given that it has high market value (assuming these high taxes are due to the land and not the improvements).
The land is only valuable as part of a buildable lot. Land that cannot be built on has a significantly lower value. I'd lose money on the deal, PLUS lose my littoral right of accretion (I'm gaining about 1 ft/year, on average).

Quote:
You can still then use the property as anyone else can. Since you wouldn't be able to build on it anyway - and presumably that wouldn't change even if the laws were changed - that would vastly improve your situation from the status quo.

And maybe you can just remove the vegetation (or replant it so the line is no longer in the footprint of where you'd like to build). Have you considered that?
Can't do that. Also illegal per the Coastal Management Agency. People have to get a CMA permit to even add small landscape berms to their front yards as it "changes the topography."
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Old 10-20-2018, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,173 posts, read 26,194,030 times
Reputation: 27914
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Oh, you mean in YOUR state the courts are saying the public can use private property inland of the MHTL?

That's super wonky.
Legally can use it or just won't enforce the fact that they can't?
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Legally can use it or just won't enforce the fact that they can't?
They "assert" the former, and then use that to justify the latter. The fact that some area governments have started charging the public fees ($50 to $150) to drive and park their 4WDs on other people's privately owned property while not giving the property owners the proceeds collected will look pretty bad in court. Not only are they taking private property for public use without paying just compensation, but now they're generating revenue from that taking, too.
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