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View Poll Results: what should be done regarding 'innocent until proven guilty?'
conservative: discard it. 0 0%
conservative: greatly restrict it, for example to criminal trials only. 0 0%
conservative: keep it as it has been. 67 56.30%
liberal: discard it. 2 1.68%
liberal: greatly restrict it, for example to criminal trials only. 0 0%
liberal:keep it as it has been. 13 10.92%
independent: discard it. 0 0%
independent: greatly restrict it, for example to criminal trials only. 1 0.84%
independent:keep it as it has been. 36 30.25%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2018, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167

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It is not explicitly in the Constitution, but is implicit in the 4th Amendment's reference to 'probable cause,' and the 5th Amendment's reference to 'due process.' It's obviously a bedrock American principle.

I'm an old union guy, and every CBA I ever voted on had a 'just cause' provision. This is true for most, if not all union CBAs. This just says that no reprimand, suspension, or discharge may be issued without showing proof of misconduct, and the burden of proof is on the employer. In other words, 'innocent until proven guilty.'

This also has been a bedrock principle of liberalism. The late journalist Tom Wolfe said: "If a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.[i.e. has been accused]." It has long been a major focus for the ACLU.

In the wake of the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation vote, I wonder if this is going away. After all, 48 of 49 Democratic Senators evidently chose to believe the accuser over the accused, despite having no evidence. None of the named witnesses could confirm Christine Blasey Ford's account of sexual assault. My own Sen. Patty Murray (D, WA) tweeted "I believe Dr. Ford." In other words, no presumption of innocence for Kavanaugh.

Is it time to partially or even wholly discard 'innocent until proven guilty?' Today's 'liberals' seem implicitly to think so. It's not even close, either. It's a 48-1 margin. What do you think?
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:38 PM
 
17,311 posts, read 12,260,346 times
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And don’t forget how Trump still wants the ‘Central Park Five’ executed even though they were exonerated based on DNA evidence and finding of the actual rapist...
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
16,960 posts, read 17,348,750 times
Reputation: 30258
We all knew what the Democratic party was up to from the get go. Kavanaugh described it perfectly in his opening defense speech. It all came down to bitter Liberals losing the election. If we're honest with ourselves, we would all agree it was a smear attempt that backfired, big time.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:41 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiiancoconut View Post
We all knew what the Democratic party was up to from the get go. Kavanaugh described it perfectly in his opening defense speech. It all came down to bitter Liberals losing the election. If were honest with ourselves, we would all agree it was a smear campaign.
Correct.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
And don’t forget how Trump still wants the ‘Central Park Five’ executed even though they were exonerated based on DNA evidence and finding of the actual rapist...
Yes there are numerous historical examples of what happens when we discard it. The Salem witch trials, and lynchings in the South of blacks are just two prime examples.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:43 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-st...en-years-later

Duke fake rape accusation
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:44 PM
 
34,066 posts, read 17,088,810 times
Reputation: 17215
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lied-rape.html

SHU fake rape accusation
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
https://twitter.com/pattymurray/stat...13856782704640
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:48 PM
 
17,311 posts, read 12,260,346 times
Reputation: 17263
No conservative should want Kavanaugh based on his disrespect for the constitution and involvement in the Patriot act.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,012,645 times
Reputation: 2167
https://reason.com/blog/2018/10/17/s...s-false-sexual

A Pittsburgh high school faces a lawsuit after a student was expelled and put on house arrest (with ankle monitor) after being falsely accused of sexual assault. One girl accused him just because she didn't like him, and then got another girl to follow up with another accusation. The girls both eventually admitted that they had fabricated the accusations, but only after the boy went through about 6 months of hell.

Quote:
By the end of the summer, the conspiracy against T.F. was unmasked: other students came forward with Snapchat messages that contradicted the claims of the "mean girls," who eventually admitted to lying. All charges against T.F. were dropped.
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