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The majority of Ukrainians did not support joining NATO in early 2014. Now, the majority DO support joining NATO, having been faced with Russian military aggression*.
OMG! Since when wikipedia became a credible source? Wikipedia has been another propaganda tool for years. There are lots of blatant nonsense there!
We don't need to read wikipedia' articles to get an idea about Ukrainian thing as we have plenty of personal contacts with many ukrainians across the country and we know what they really want for sure. Go to youtube channel of Анатолий Шарий who is Ukrainian and who has 1.6 M subscribers. Read comments of the majority of ukrainians under his reports to get the real picture of what ukrainian people want.
Russia already had troops in the Crimea and has had them there since WWII. They REINFORCED the troops there already.
It has always been a point of debate just who the Crimea belongs to especially since WWII. Kruschov gifted it to the Ukraine but the Soviet DUMA never agreed and never signed anything into law.
Go educate yourself ffs. You add nothing to the debate.
You're right. Khrushchev (who were ethnic ukrainian by the way) transfered Crimea to Ukraine illegally. He couldn't do that at all. He had no such authority. Crimeans as Russian people didn't want it from the day one.
I believed, at that time, Western Europe and the United States were natural allies, but I don't see it that way anymore or do I see Europe worth spilling American blood for their protection [...]
Wrong perspective. NATO prevents Americans from having to spill blood over Europe. In fact, NATO prevents the power balance in Europe from turning against our interests to the point where such a proposition would be possible--as it was in WWI and WWII, prior to the existence of NATO.
The data is cited is from spring 2014, which your data does not rebut. In addition, one must remember that "Russian-speaking" does not equal "pro-Russian" - as this map shows, there are many who consider themselves ethnic Ukrainians who speak Russian as their native language (in fact, that's true of the majority of the east of Ukraine--except Crimea, which really is majority ethnic Russian).
Quote:
The reality is, the majority of the east of Ukraine, which was ambivalent about Yaunkovych and Euromaidan, became decidedly pro-Ukrainian and anti-Russian, as a result of hybrid Russian military invasion and war.
The majority of Ukrainians did not support joining NATO in early 2014. Now, the majority DO support joining NATO, having been faced with Russian military aggression*.
Sigh.
The majority of the Wiki articles on Russia-Ukraine are written lately by Ukrainians ( or pro-Ukrainian ppl) lately I've noticed.
Russians don't bother. They don't give a damn to present their part of a story.
Now if your poll was taken BEFORE the damn Maidan took place, yes, Eastern Ukrainians didn't worry much about separation, since under Yanukovich THEY WERE LEFT ALONE. They were not forced to speak Ukrainian, their "Eastern Ukrainian identity" was left alone as well. So what did they care what the WESTERN part was doing? And of course they didn't take part in all these upheavals to overthrow their legitimatelly-elected president, who served them well.
It all changed after Maidan, when they became potential traitors to the "true Ukrainian identity," which - lo and behold, turned out to be from the Westernmost Galicia and Volhynya provinces.
And that's what the map I posted, precisely demonstrates.
You on another hand have only slogans that you keep on pushing.
We all remember the footage, ( and then some more) when the new government in Kiev sent their battalions to subjugate Eastern Ukraine, when "Russia-Russia-Russia" was nowhere around.
That's what it was, not the picture you are trying to present here ( in which I'm sure you sincerely believe.)
And yes, I still consider Putin to be a traitor.
Ever wonder why Russia pays its own trolls? It's a well documented phenomenon. Newsflash to Americans: their intentions are not exactly benign as far as American interests are concerned. Re-read what I wrote:
NATO prevents Americans from having to spill blood over Europe. In fact, NATO prevents the power balance in Europe from turning against our interests to the point where such a proposition would be possible--as it was in WWI and WWII, prior to the existence of NATO.
Russia already had troops in the Crimea and has had them there since WWII. They REINFORCED the troops there already.
It has always been a point of debate just who the Crimea belongs to especially since WWII. Kruschov gifted it to the Ukraine but the Soviet DUMA never agreed and never signed anything into law.
Go educate yourself ffs. You add nothing to the debate.
LMAO...."reinforced" with troops wearing no unit logos.
I mean, seriously...when you have to send in troops that are masked with no logo....and then you pop up to tell me it was all legal and they were there anyway?
Wrong perspective. NATO prevents Americans from having to spill blood over Europe. In fact, NATO prevents the power balance in Europe from turning against our interests to the point where such a proposition would be possible--as it was in WWI and WWII, prior to the existence of NATO.
Well that may be the official story but member nation contributions suggest otherwise..
That said in no way shape or form is the Ukraine a non-nato member worth going to war over. We would have to be insane to even risk it. How many fronts do we want to be fighting on?
OMG! Since when wikipedia became a credible source? Wikipedia has been another propaganda tool for years. There are lots of blatant nonsense there!
We don't need to read wikipedia' articles to get an idea about Ukrainian thing as we have plenty of personal contacts with many ukrainians across the country and we know what they really want for sure. Go to youtube channel of Анатолий Шарий who is Ukrainian and who has 1.6 M subscribers. Read comments of the majority of ukrainians under his reports to get the real picture of what ukrainian people want.
Yeah, they want to team up with the country that produced the powerhouse that was eastern Germany as opposed to Western germany (as one example of many).
There is a reason that "Russian Bride" is an entire meme here in the US.
Well that may be the official story but member nation contributions suggest otherwise..
That said in no way shape or form is the Ukraine a non-nato member worth going to war over. We would have to be insane to even risk it. How many fronts do we want to be fighting on?
I'm not suggesting we go to war over Ukraine. We don't have any defense commitments to Ukraine, so we don't undermine our credibility by refusing to honor our obligations, such as with Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania (i.e., NATO members). If Russia were to invade and take the entirety of Ukraine, then I don't think we should interfere militarily. Still, such a scenario is absolutely NOT in our interests. So we should do what is in our power, short of intervening militarily, to support Ukraine and Ukrainian territorial integrity.
Ever wonder why Russia pays its own trolls? It's a well documented phenomenon. Newsflash to Americans: their intentions are not exactly benign as far as American interests are concerned. Re-read what I wrote:
NATO prevents Americans from having to spill blood over Europe. In fact, NATO prevents the power balance in Europe from turning against our interests to the point where such a proposition would be possible--as it was in WWI and WWII, prior to the existence of NATO.
I see.
No way to refute the footage?
As they say, picture is worth thousand words.
So here is more;
This is how Donbass was *greeting* the occupational forces; with all their expletives, they sure had a lot of guts to pull these soldiers with their bare hands out of their tanks.
And this is the reaction of the crowd in Kharkov, when they've first discovered the nationalist youth from the "Right sector", infiltrating their town.
Kinda goes against your narrative about the Eastern part of Ukraine, no?
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