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Old 12-07-2018, 08:07 AM
 
36,529 posts, read 30,871,648 times
Reputation: 32796

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The only way you can get by with fake documents is if your employer and the government doesn't care.
Not saying some employers and the government dont care but new hires must fill out an I-9. Two forms of ID are required. Generally a SS card and a DL.

11.2.1 Unfair Documentary Practices
The INA prohibits discriminatory documentary practices related to verifying the employment authorization and identity of employees during the employment eligibility verification process (generally, the Form I-9 and E-Verify processes). Unfair documentary practices generally occur when employers treat individuals differently on the basis of national origin or citizenship or immigration status in the Form I-9 or E-Verify processes, or any other process an employer may use that verifies employment eligibility. Unfair documentary practices can be broadly categorized into four types of conduct:

Requesting that an individual produce more or different documents than are required by Form I-9 to establish the individual’s identity and employment authorization;
Requesting that individuals present a particular document, such as a “Green Card,” to establish identity and/or employment authorization;
Rejecting documents that reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the individuals presenting them; and
Treating groups of individuals differently when verifying employment eligibility, such as requiring certain groups of individuals who look or sound “foreign” to present particular documents the employer does not require other individuals to present.
These practices may constitute unfair documentary practices if they are committed based on citizenship or immigration status, or national origin, and should be avoided when verifying employment authorization. The INA’s prohibition against unfair documentary practices covers employers with four or more employees.


So if a person brought a DL that appears to be a real DL even if it is a fake and a SS cared that appears to be a SS card the individual fill out the I-9 basically must accept those documents or face penalties.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:11 AM
 
36,529 posts, read 30,871,648 times
Reputation: 32796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Trump is ultimately responsible for what his businesses do.
He owns 500 businesses. And he is the President. You actually believe he handles day to day operations of each and every one. You do realize business owners hire managers, supervisors, accounts, even outsource certain obligations to other firms.

I guess what you mean is business owners ultimately take the fall for any over site of their employees.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:11 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
So if a person brought a DL that appears to be a real DL even if it is a fake and a SS cared that appears to be a SS card the individual fill out the I-9 basically must accept those documents or face penalties.
Nothing stops an employer from verifying the information provided to you. Mandatory e-verify could have passed long ago BUT employers do NOT want that and they are the ones with the large campaign donations.

Where is Trump pounding the podium demanding to shut the country down if it's not passed?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:13 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
He owns 500 businesses. And he is the President. You actually believe he handles day to day operations of each and every one. You do realize business owners hire managers, supervisors, accounts, even outsource certain obligations to other firms.

I guess what you mean is business owners ultimately take the fall for any over site of their employees.
An business owner is ultimately responsible for his businesses. Trump even more so as he demonizes others for the same.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:15 AM
 
62,959 posts, read 29,152,361 times
Reputation: 18589
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
All illegal immigrants lie about their legal status.

This is why tens of thousands of employers use eVerify, regardless of state laws requiring them to do so and the intended loopholes in those states with mandates. They seek to avoid the public relations embarrassment associated with employing illegal aliens.

There is no reasonable reason for any employer to not use EVerify beyond they don’t want to know.

In this case, the housekeeper’s documentation was an obvious fake as the numbers did not follow a legitimate format. Heck, if an employer does not want to be bothered, no shortage of businesses will do the appropriate background check and employment verification as a fee for service.

Instead of first taking all reasonable measures, make eVerify mandatory- no loopholes, let’s borrow from China and spend $ bajillions on a “ Trump Wall”.

Once again, not all illegals are coming here for work. Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over? The wall is needed and the good walls do work. It's not Trump's wall anyway he just wants the 700 mile long wall completed that was approved back in 2006. Why do you have a problem with what congress itself approved?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,748,172 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Except there is no proof that he told those under him to hire illegal aliens and I'm sure some of the work was contracted out which makes the contractor responsible for hiring legal workers, not Trump or his organization. Where is your proof that he set the tone to hire illegal aliens? There have been many cases where employers have been accused of hiring illegal aliens when it was their personnel dept. that looked the other way when employees were screened for hiring. Illegal aliens use very authentic looking documents to get hired also which is evidenced by what this Guatamalan illegal alien did.


In New Jersey there is no state mandate to use e-verify. However, Trump's organization did use it in the states that mandated it. So no, the claims were not lies. How do you know that there weren't valid reasons to use the H2B visas? Why were those visas used if the Trump organization could just hire illegal workers instead? You're not making any sense.


Chain migration should only be allowed where the immigrants can support themselves. Do you actually think that Melania's family couldn't do that and that they'd be on the public dole instead? What does that have to do with the subject at hand anyway?
Of course he did not tell his employees to hire illegals.

He is the beneficial owner of the trust that holds his properties. As such, it’s his organization’s responsibility to set the tone at the top and ensure there are appropriate processes and checks and balances.

None of Trump’ s 11 hotel properties or country clubs are in the few states that mandate eVerify. Your claim that it uses eVerify in states that mandate it, makes no sense.

Regardless of state laws, employers who seek to avoid the embarrassment and optics associated with employing illegal immigrants do the eVerify thing. There is no reason to not use eVerify unless the employer does not want to know.

There is no reason for Trump Org to apply for and use H2B visa workers instead of hiring citizens according to Palm Beach County. No shortage of businesses in seasonal areas pay more, pick up tolls and run vans to designated pick up/ drop off points. Relying on low- skilled visa workers is contrary to his platform.

During Trump’s inauguration speech, he focused on the 4 pillars of immigration reform. He said he would limit chain migration to spouses and unmarried children. This is contrary to Melania’s sister and parents immigration.

There is no doubt that chain migration of Melania’s sister and parents is a part of the deal between Melania and Trump. They are not a burden on society given they have residences in Trump properties and likely receive a stipend, given they are not employed. And I don’t personally give a damn about them.

It is however a contradiction between Trump words and actions. It’s not unreasonable to expect him to walk the talk.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:28 AM
 
36,529 posts, read 30,871,648 times
Reputation: 32796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Nothing stops an employer from verifying the information provided to you. Mandatory e-verify could have passed long ago BUT employers do NOT want that and they are the ones with the large campaign donations.

Where is Trump pounding the podium demanding to shut the country down if it's not passed?
I agree large employers should use e-verify without it being mandatory. Many employers intentionally use illegal aliens for cheap labor, some dont want to mess with it a feel legitimate looking DLs and SS cards are sufficient. That is why it needs to be mandatory.


Now what good would it do Trump to pound sand about Congress not passing his immigration bill?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:47 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
I agree large employers should use e-verify without it being mandatory. Many employers intentionally use illegal aliens for cheap labor, some dont want to mess with it a feel legitimate looking DLs and SS cards are sufficient. That is why it needs to be mandatory.


Now what good would it do Trump to pound sand about Congress not passing his immigration bill?
Someone would at least be talking about it as opposed to leaving it buried and Trump is a large employer.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,748,172 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Once again, not all illegals are coming here for work. Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over? The wall is needed and the good walls do work. It's not Trump's wall anyway he just wants the 700 mile long wall completed that was approved back in 2006. Why do you have a problem with what congress itself approved?
Depending on who is counting there are 11-30 million illegal immigrants living in the US right now. Most adults are employed, somewhere.

No shortage of perceptions that illegal immigrants are stealing US jobs and depressing hourly wages. ( Not much focus on those who employ them)

Their children attend public schools.

Contrary to endless social media noise, illegal immigrants are not eligible for Section 8, TANF or SNAP benefits. States can however create their own criteria so long as it is state- funded. Anchor babies however are eligible even though their parents are not legal. Children receiving SNAP benefits automatically qualify for free/ reduced meals at school. This includes lunch and at some schools, breakfast and sometimes early dinners, too.

The point of this is that in most cases, one or more in any given household are employed. Some manage to earn enough to live and wire money back home.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:59 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Once again, not all illegals are coming here for work. Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over? The wall is needed and the good walls do work. It's not Trump's wall anyway he just wants the 700 mile long wall completed that was approved back in 2006. Why do you have a problem with what congress itself approved?
I don't think anyone has a problem with continuation of the work that has always been done. But I'm told that aircraft and trucks and trains and cars and bikes and walking are taking place by the MILLIONS each month...so it's completely foolish to think that a Wall represents anything much except a deity you are perhaps face and pray to.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Repeat it over and over and then ask why Republicans won't let it even be brought up to START in the Senate or House? Then ask yourself why even TEXAS (rabid red) won't do e-verify.

Your answer will be very clear.

If Trump is that poor of a deal maker that he can run all the branches of Gubment and not get anything done - that's not my fault or yours.
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