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So how about the Law Abiding citizens that never commit crime? Why should they be punished for what career criminals do? The vast majority of crime committed by people using guns are CAREER FELONS that are allowed back on the street time, and time again. Stop them and stop 95% of actual "gun violence".
Why are these career criminals allowed back on the streets often after little, or no jail time due to plea deals?
So they can illegally obtain a gun, commit more crimes and the politicians that allow this to happen can blame the gun and demand that we need more gun laws that only affect those who obey the law. The end justifies the means. They don't want to end "gun violence" they thrive on it. It's a method for justifying their cause.
You also have to take into consideration that many politicians are greedy trial lawyers. Keeping criminals in prison would be bad for their bottom line as there would be fewer repeat offenders going to trial. Not only that but as more laws are created more laws will be broken. Especially laws that turn otherwise law abiding people into criminals for what was once perfectly legal. This in violation of all "ex post facto" protections under the Constitution.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is beneath these people in their quest of abolishing the 2nd Amendment along with complete civilian disarmament.
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Ex post facto laws retroactively change the rules of evidence in a criminal case, retroactively alter the definition of a crime, retroactively increase the punishment for a criminal act, or punish conduct that was legal when committed. They are prohibited by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution. An ex post facto law is considered a hallmark of tyranny because it deprives people of a sense of what behavior will or will not be punished and allows for random punishment at the whim of those in power.
The prohibition of ex post facto laws was an imperative in colonial America. The Framers of the Constitution understood the importance of such a prohibition, considering the historical tendency of government leaders to abuse power. As Alexander Hamilton observed, "[i]t is easy for men … to be zealous advocates for the rights of the citizens when they are invaded by others, and as soon as they have it in their power, to become the invaders themselves." The desire to thwart abuses of power also inspired the Framers of the Constitution to prohibit bills of attainder, which are laws that inflict punishment on named individuals or on easily ascertainable members of a group without the benefit of a trial. Both ex post facto laws and bills of attainder deprive those subject to them of due process of law—that is, of notice and an opportunity to be heard before being deprived of life, liberty, or property.---https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Ex+Post+Facto+Laws
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 12-30-2018 at 05:08 PM..
Stop improperly counting suicides in that tally and the number is 13K. Not nearly as exciting, eh?
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Originally Posted by ARaider08
... Could you explain why that count is improper?
Because it is not tough to show that gun availability contributes to suicide. As someone who supports commonsense gun control, I hate to admit it, but the pro-gun people are right about this.
For example Japan has very strict gun control, with virtually no guns in private hands, but they have a much higher suicide rate than the US.
And guns are the only issue where people can't seem to see this. For example suicide by train is not uncommon throughout the world. I recall about a year ago seeing a story that my state had a record number of deaths by train--mostly suicides. I did not see ANY stories suggesting that this was cause for 'train control' legislation. It is only with guns that we get such a ludicrous argument. It is an argument that weakens, not strengthens, the overall position for gun control advocates.
Because it is not tough to show that gun availability contributes to suicide. As someone who supports commonsense gun control, I hate to admit it, but the pro-gun people are right about this.
For example Japan has very strict gun control, with virtually no guns in private hands, but they have a much higher suicide rate than the US.
And guns are the only issue where people can't seem to see this. For example suicide by train is not uncommon throughout the world. I recall about a year ago seeing a story that my state had a record number of deaths by train--mostly suicides. I did not see ANY stories suggesting that this was cause for 'train control' legislation. It is only with guns that we get such a ludicrous argument. It is an argument that weakens, not strengthens, the overall position for gun control advocates.
I think the argument isn't that gun suicides should be seen in the same light as gun murders but that gun suicides are easier to do than other suicides. For example the amount of people who survive a gun suicide attempt is much lower than the run-of-the-mill suicide attempt. So the argument there is that less guns mean more people surviving suicides and thus more people who are able to get help. It's definitely a subjective argument but to me it makes perfect sense to talk about gun deaths as squeezing a trigger is much easier (again subjective) than hanging oneself. Overdosing on pills and other arguments again are very subjective, but what is fact is gun attempted suicides are usually not "attempted suicides" because the perpetrator is extremely likely to be successful.
It makes more sense to say "Death by gun" versus "murder by gun"
Count the suicides by gun as death by gun.
Count the suicides as suicides. If a guy jumps in front of a train, we don't take it as a cause for 'train control.' If someone hangs themselves with a rope, we don't implicate the hardware store that sold the rope.
Count the suicides as suicides. If a guy jumps in front of a train, we don't take it as a cause for 'train control.' If someone hangs themselves with a rope, we don't implicate the hardware store that sold the rope.
Actually to stop people jumping in front of trains at different train stations around the world different types of barriers have been placed so it doesn't happen. I'm sorry I can't name one of the top of my head, but if I find a video i'll post it.
Actually to stop people jumping in front of trains at different train stations around the world different types of barriers have been placed so it doesn't happen. I'm sorry I can't name one of the top of my head, but if I find a video i'll post it.
I'm guessing this is really more about preventing accidental falls than suicides. Why wouldn't the suicidal person just go to a section of track without a barrier?
I'm guessing this is really more about preventing accidental falls than suicides. Why wouldn't the suicidal person just go to a section of track without a barrier?
These are new high speed commuter trains, so it normally isn't easy to find an exposed section of track to just step into, also someone can stop you if your waiting for a train at somewhere that clearly isn't a train stop.
Also their specifically called suicide prevention barriers, because they do just that.
Also some people are just attention-seeking, they try to make their deaths as public as possible (part of their reason they did their suicide), and what better place than a crowded train station.
Wiki isn't the best place- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_barrier but their called that because their main stated purpose is usually for suicides, as people falling on a train track don't happen right before a train is about to hit you so if someone dies in that situation it's more like a suicide.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 12-30-2018 at 06:05 PM..
Its very tough and expensive if you want to obtain these guns LEGALLY...but like other things, if you dont mind obtaining them illegally, they are much cheaper and easier to get!
Post something to back up that statement! As usual you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
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