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Old 02-01-2019, 11:29 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,699,758 times
Reputation: 14051

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
They should also support limiting immigration, particularly unskilled immigration into the arid west. We cannot handle million more pouring into the west degredating our land and water.
All orgs have limits to what they can address. The Sierra Club, which I am VERY intimately familiar with, mainly pursues actual winnable LEGAL cases in the various states. They have the pick of the litter of Lawyers who could have made 5 to 10X as much money working for corporate interests...but decided instead to try and work toward a more public interest.

Humans are specialists and no org or person can be everything to everyone. As I said, I've seen them make many "mistakes" some of which they admit. They pushed Nat Gas not realizing that certain states would turn their land into pincushions to produce it. Their ideals were correct - but they just didn't imagine that humans....would be humans (destroy the earth for some quick gains).

How would you address the Americans and Evangelicals who don't believe in family planning? That isn't just one "club", but 10's of millions who believe their purpose on this planet is to multiply.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,636 posts, read 28,738,299 times
Reputation: 25228
Illegal immigration needs to go to zero. That is for sure.

And legal immigration needs to be highly restricted and controlled.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,188 posts, read 4,776,076 times
Reputation: 4874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterful_Man View Post
It's really common sense.
People are ruining the environment.

Their over consumption of resources, the pollution they create, and the environmental damage they cause.

America's increasing population (mostly via immigration) will only place a heavier burden on our environment. People who move to America (or other advanced nations) end up using more resources, have a larger carbon footprint, and release more pollution into the environment than they would have if they had stayed in their home countries.

The environment is the #1 issue of our times.
Currently there is a mass extinction under way of animal and plant species on the planet, in addition to more dramatic climate changes. Deforestation and human created pollution play a major role in these negative environmental changes.

The biggest impact western nations (or other advanced nations) could potentially have on improving their environment is to stop all immigration into their nations, both legal or illegal.

Population stabilization is the only realistic way to prevent further environmental destruction, and to achieve this stabilization advanced nations will have to cease allowing in immigrants.

"When immigrants come to the United States, they do not maintain the traditional lifestyle of their home country. Rather, they quickly adapt to the American lifestyle. As they do, they become greater consumers and polluters; their individual ecological footprint increases. For example, the carbon footprint of the average immigrant is 302 percent higher than it would have been had s/he remained at home."

Environmental Impact | Federation for American Immigration Reform

Your thoughts?
What a load of crap.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,724,963 times
Reputation: 1081
As a white passing Hispanic I agree with your message and I am glad you rustled many jimmies as possible, good job
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,724,963 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
It is becoming quite common these days. Politics is blinding and jading people so severely that logic is being displaced by it.

Isn't the original post the definition of racism? Here's what I gleaned from the post:

Americans can reproduce and grow the population as much as desired, and they can consume as many resources as they want. They can create as large of a carbon footprint as they want. However, others are not allowed to obtain this quality of life. You must stay in your own country, and you must keep your carbon footprint, lifestyle, and quality of life at levels lower than Americans, otherwise the world as we know it will come to an end.

Way the go misinterpreting the post, clearly proving the OP's point.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,724,963 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Obviously having children is the worst possibly thing for our environment - especially American children, who consume more resources and energy than any other people in the world (save for maybe Saudis)....

But the same "side" that has built their castles of sand on the bad bad immigrants has a platform whereas every possibly effort is made to have more Americans have MORE children.....

Obviously this makes no sense. It's why the Right seems to play tic-tac-toe (and poorly) instead of chess. The Right laments that we don't have millions more Americans born each year to poor families. Really! Also, much of the Evangelical Right still believes in very large families...

Consistency would be a good thing.
At least the op had link, care to share a citation or do just want to cater to the PC police instead of being factual?
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,724,963 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Ok, and compare the average immigrant's carbon footprint with that of the average American born in the US. Go on.

The core issue is with how the American lifestyle is designed and expected to be incredibly wasteful. Kind of weird to blame immigrants.

What about "real Americans" (as you'd see it) who have kids? Are they exempt from your contempt?
Did the op said those were exemp?
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
3,255 posts, read 1,724,963 times
Reputation: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The sad thing is that the OP is serious.
Ok, I will ask a question here


Name me a way how immigrants are opressed? And to make it seem less biased, I am talking immigrants in general

What's wrong with prioritizing the people of your country? Care to answer me that?
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:10 PM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,390,119 times
Reputation: 5141
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
All orgs have limits to what they can address. The Sierra Club, which I am VERY intimately familiar with, mainly pursues actual winnable LEGAL cases in the various states. They have the pick of the litter of Lawyers who could have made 5 to 10X as much money working for corporate interests...but decided instead to try and work toward a more public interest.

Humans are specialists and no org or person can be everything to everyone. As I said, I've seen them make many "mistakes" some of which they admit. They pushed Nat Gas not realizing that certain states would turn their land into pincushions to produce it. Their ideals were correct - but they just didn't imagine that humans....would be humans (destroy the earth for some quick gains).

How would you address the Americans and Evangelicals who don't believe in family planning? That isn't just one "club", but 10's of millions who believe their purpose on this planet is to multiply.
An environmental group should be an advocate for the protection of the environment, not advocating for more immigration.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:15 PM
 
22,488 posts, read 12,039,050 times
Reputation: 20413
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus2 View Post
Care to share a link?

This is bull and you know it.
No, it is NOT "bull"

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/021...di_sierra_club

From the link:

But the biggest donation the Sierra Club ever received is the one that altered it forever. In 2004, the Los Angeles Times revealed a $100 million gift made by investor David Gelbaum. Unfortunately for environmentalists, Gelbaum’s money came with the string attached that the club never speak out against or try to limit immigration into the United States no matter how obvious it became that adding more people has severe ecological consequences.

Gelbaum told Times reporter Kenneth Weiss that his instructions to then-Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope were that “if they ever came out anti-immigration, they would never get a dollar from me.” Pope eagerly agreed — but with devastating results.

-----------------------------
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