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Old 02-09-2019, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,133,341 times
Reputation: 1747

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
We are here fussing about the government and you want me to believe unregulated business would produce a more ethical world? Did I understand you?
Governments killed over 200 million people in the 20th century alone.

How could unregulated voluntary exchange be any less ethical than that?
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:09 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,612,627 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
We are here fussing about the government and you want me to believe unregulated business would produce a more ethical world? Did I understand you?
It doesn’t? You have to be kidding. A government filled with corrupt politicians would produce a better world. There has to be an enormous amount of insanity to believe that.

Please explain.

Last edited by lifeexplorer; 02-09-2019 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:19 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,612,627 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Sure, lets start with all the corporate written regulations.
We can also kill patents since they are so abused now as a cash cow.
It would allow competitors to grow.


The ones that own the politicians hate capitalism since competition is a huge part of it.
Do it. You will have my full support.

Do I understand you will not vote for the Democrats anymore because they only want more government regulations?

Last edited by lifeexplorer; 02-09-2019 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,377 posts, read 23,847,731 times
Reputation: 38877
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
That is absolutely wrong!



The Constitution permits 'the people' to remove a govt from power if it becomes necessary, but 'the people' must step up to actually do that, and given the right circumstances, this is actually a DUTY of American citizens, refusal or avoiding it because it may be too inconvenient, or may result in arrest or imprisonment, should not even be factors....


This is what patriotism is...its rarely easy, convenient, or popular.
And they can't well do that with attacks on the 2nd Amendment - because you aren't going to remove a government by asking nicely. It was the entire point of the 2nd Amendment that some people are trying very hard to get rid of - they say they aren't, but they are making their attempts slowly, one tiny step at a time.

Other posters have stated that the voters are the problem - being that the voters are every day citizens, then yes, it is the fault of every single citizen in this country that this continues. Some people work hard to expose what the government is doing, the rest just sit around complaining about it. That's where we are right now.

We don't need a law to ban this or that, we need people to keep the government in check - no one seems willing to do that. In fact, some seem to want more of the same by asking for the government to have more control.

If you want the government to do this and that for you, don't complain about a government being too big and corrupt, and blame lobbyists. You can't give what someone is unwilling to take.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:32 AM
 
9,914 posts, read 7,743,256 times
Reputation: 2494
Feel it is a double edge sword
Lobbyist help be advocates for the American people

However, on the flip side is there any check and balance with Lobbyist

What I mean do large corporations or various monopolies that are involved in Lobbying influence how Congress will vote

That is my biggest concern with Lobbying but I don't know if there is anyway to balance that
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:09 PM
 
6,835 posts, read 2,412,849 times
Reputation: 2727
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Exactly!
It is legalized bribery.

One way you would see those supporting now, reverse their decision is to give every citizen a million dollars to be spent on lobbying only. Then everyone would have "$Freedom of Speech$".

They want all the power and freedom of speech none for anyone else.
Let's not forget that practically speaking, lobbying can have judicial, political, and corporate corruptions mixed into it.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:12 PM
 
24,057 posts, read 15,174,810 times
Reputation: 12993
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
It doesn’t? You have to be kidding. A government filled with corrupt politicians would produce a better world. There has to be an enormous amount of insanity to believe that.

Please explain.
I think corrupt politicians and corrupt business enable each other. That's why I suggested don't re elect anybody.

Was that 200 million killed by politicians the world over or the USA?

I'll see your 200 million and raise you all the people who were killed by business. Poisoning air and water, putting drugs on the market that do more harm than good, killing by governments to protect iAmerican interest abroad. Looks like the same people doing the same old stuff to me. It is true symbiotic relationship.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:16 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,877,428 times
Reputation: 25191
Sigh...

Lobbying is a very important part of how the government runs. Your congress person has not a clue how a new air traffic control radar will improve airline safety, but that lobbyist is going to inform him of so. Your congress person has not a clue about many, many things, lobbyist are the ones who inform politicians of such things.

You are only thinking of the lobbyist who legally bribe politicians in the sense of pure self interest (what we call bribery if other countries have such a system, we just make it legal), over the general public and even the good of the US, however, though they make the news often, they are a very, very small part of the overall lobbying effort. Lobbying involves everything from the military contractors, to non-profits to help homeless animals.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:21 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,612,627 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
I think corrupt politicians and corrupt business enable each other. That's why I suggested don't re elect anybody.

Was that 200 million killed by politicians the world over or the USA?

I'll see your 200 million and raise you all the people who were killed by business. Poisoning air and water, putting drugs on the market that do more harm than good, killing by governments to protect iAmerican interest abroad. Looks like the same people doing the same old stuff to me. It is true symbiotic relationship.
Right, so stop the government regulation and no business people would have any incentive to bribe politicians.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:31 PM
 
3,601 posts, read 1,802,956 times
Reputation: 4730
A shrinking of government would shrink lobbying.
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