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If they are trying to offend people, who is it that they are trying to offend? Not black people, but northerners. Or as southerners call them, "Yankees".
Southerners see themselves as different from Northerners. Southerners have different values, a different culture, and a different history.
To those who fly the flag to offend, what they are really saying is, "**** off Yankees, stop trying to control us, we are proud of who we are."
To what extent can the media shape perceptions?
Well, I don't see many southern Blacks trying to offend "Yankees". Why is that? And why pick a symbol with so many ties to a very ugly cause, one dedicated to keeping slavery?
What is it that said flag flyers are proud of? The persons who fly that flag, what is their definition of what it means to be a southerner?
And as for media perception, that is basically the same as saying "Blacks are brainwashed". Come up with something better than that. Historically, blacks have never identified with the Confederate cause or the Confederate flag. This isn't some media problem. This goes back decades.
Segregation is what people tend to do naturally. People prefer to be around people like themselves. As the saying goes, "The least-diverse places in the country, are churches on Sunday morning."
If we woke up tomorrow and there was no government, where would you go? Fast-forward a couple years, what would the world look like?
When I say segregation, I really mean tribalism. Tribalism is the natural way of the world. Diversity only ever occurs under a government which can enforce it. Take away government, and the whole world would be a sequence of Amish-like villages.
Cities cannot exist without government. And the reason there are laws against discrimination, is because people naturally want to discriminate. Though it has less to do with race, and more to do with something approximating "nepotism".
There is no way any of the people in this forum would ever voluntarily enter society together. And that is precisely why governments NEVER give you that choice.
The actual history of the world has been conquest, oppression, assimilation, and then cultural-hegemony through state propaganda.
Why do you think the first act of "Nation-Building" is creating "Government-schools". This country would not exist without the propaganda machine starting practically from birth. Having four-year olds pledging their allegiance to flags, and lying about our history.
This is a fake country, only held together by force and lies.
Well, I don't see many southern Blacks trying to offend "Yankees". Why is that? And why pick a symbol with so many ties to a very ugly cause, one dedicated to keeping slavery?
Because the media keeps black people perpetually fearful of the white-supremacist boogeyman, with Joe Biden saying Republicans want to "put you back in chains".
Let me say again, racists don't want to rule black people, they want nothing to do with black people. They don't want to keep blacks as slaves, they wish they didn't exist at all.
Because the media keeps black people perpetually fearful of the white-supremacist boogeyman, with Joe Biden saying Republicans want to "put you back in chains".
Let me say again, racists don't want to rule black people, they want nothing to do with black people. They don't want to keep blacks as slaves, they wish they didn't exist at all.
If you really think Black people are that stupid, then perhaps you shouldn't be on this thread. Last I checked, 90 percent of the nation's Black population was in the South. Now it's 55 percent of the nation's Black population in the South. Black people didn't need to the media to keep them in fear. Black people have personal experiences for that.
Now, what does any of this have to do with how Blacks perceive the Confederate flag? Blacks weren't representing southern heritage with the Confederate flag back in the 1900s or the 1950s. They aren't doing now. Do you really think it was the media telling them that, or is that something you keep telling yourself?
It basically tries to claim that there was practically a utopia in the south before some politicians started scaring white people.
The timeline of the article seems to suggest that segregation started in 1894, as the result of the "Fusion" political strategy. But Plessy v. Ferguson was the result of a law passed in 1890. And Frederick Douglass discussed the same concerns of whites before the Civil War even ended.
"Objections to the abolition of slavery are often urged with a show of sincere solicitude for the welfare of the slaves themselves. It is said, what will you do with them? They can't take care of themselves; they would all come to the North; they would not work; they would become a burden upon the State, and a blot upon society; They'd cut their masters' throats; They would cheapen labor, and crowd out the poor white laborer from employment; Their former masters would not employ them, and they would necessarily become vagrants, paupers and criminals, overrunning all our alms houses, jails and prisons. The laboring classes among the whites would come in bitter conflict with them in all the avenues of labor, and regarding them as occupying places and filling positions which should be occupied and filled by white men; a fierce war of races would be the inevitable consequence, and the black race would, of course, (being the weaker,) be exterminated." - Frederick Douglass, 1862
The article also discusses class, and says... "As the Charlotte Chronicle, a newspaper predominantly for white readers, wrote in 1887, wealth and position erected barriers 'more despotic, if anything, than those based on prejudices of color.' "
Why did the article mention that the Charlotte Chronicle was a newspaper predominantly for white readers? And if segregation by wealth was even more despotic than segregation by race, by what method was class-segregation carried out?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-19-2019 at 01:08 PM..
It is ironic how angry you are that "white people" claim to know what black people think. While you claim to know exactly what white people think.
There is a battle going on right now for the soul of America. It again pits "the south" against "the north", in a "culture war", about issues such as abortion, gay-marriage, immigration, and the power of the Federal government. Both sides think they are "culturally-superior".
Might it be possible that many actually see the Confederate flag as being about States' rights? Or about secession? Or about the Constitution? Or even about god?
A lot of southerners hate the north, and they hate California as well. Oklahoma no more wants to be ruled by California, than California wants to be ruled by Oklahoma. Your hatefulness makes you incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
As I've said before, libertarians and anarchists are overwhelmingly Confederate-sympathizers. Why?
FYI - I'm not "angry" lol.
I'm just stating the historical facts.
There is no battle going on right now for America's "soul." All the conversations about race and region are historically a part of the American tradition just like blaming "media" for all the ills of society is a part of our tradition (and I'll note I also get into the "media" thing myself).
I don't think any culture is superior to another especially not the "north" vs "south" thing. As I noted, both northerners and southerners bought into a white supremacist society, it is a part of our history as a nation as a whole.
In regards to state's rights - the south wanted to right to hold slaves and not have their property rights over said slaves reduced or ridiculed or contained in any way. People like to act like that is not the case, but it really is the case if you know American history and you read the articles of secession of the CSA states - especially SC which I posted earlier in the thread.
Libertarians and anarchists are overwhelmingly confederate sympathizers because they support a superiority system and do not believe that "racism" exist when it does. I've mentioned before they are very naive when it comes to human nature. IMO they are also very wishy-washy with their fabricated "what-if" and scenarios.
I don't have any "hate" either lol. You are getting way too emotional over internet posts. I told you I'm a realist. I'm also black and I know my black history and I don't think Lincoln is a savior. I especially know about the men whose work I mentioned along with a substantial amount of black feminist and black feminist theory. If I spoke on those topics, I'm sure I'd made black men angry and men in general and they'd accuse me of being "hateful" like you are doing when I'm just relating the facts. I have no problem with you and I don't have a problem with people flying the confederate flag or being racists or whatever floats their boat. However, if you fly the flag don't think people like me are going to pretend it is not a banner for white supremacy and the "values" of the confederacy (number one value was white supremacy and the "right" of white southerners to continue to treat other people as their "property" - you know, basically property rights. And FWIW that is also one of the reasons that many Libertarians and anarchist support the CSA - because they value property rights over human rights but don't want to admit it).
You would agree that opposition to the Confederate flag has grown in recent years. They won't even show the Dukes of Hazzard on TV anymore. Why?
You don't have to be stupid to be manipulated by the media. White people are just as easily manipulated. If not more so.
Black people have been advocating against the flying of the Confederate flag since the 1870s. Only reason why you don't know about it is because you don't know about black history. White media often ignored the stories and complaints of the black populace. It is only in the mainstream media today because of social media. Black people are heavy social media users - much moreso than other portions of the US population and we are historically big mouths where we will yell about our issues. There is just a larger platform today and these gripes are much harder for the mainstream to ignore because Twitter and FB and IG posts get more attention than media outlets/papers/channels which forces those media outlets/papers/channels to report on social media instead of maintaining a "traditional" journalist tradition.
I read your W.E.B. Du Bois quote three times because I wanted to make sure I understood the breadth of his argument. And while I think his singling-out of Robert E. Lee is unfair, since his same logic could be applied to nearly everyone. His real argument is exactly what I've been saying in this entire thread...
"For what did (Robert E. Lee) fight? State rights? Nonsense. The South cared only for State Rights as a weapon to defend slavery. If nationalism had been a stronger defense of the slave system than particularism, the South would have been as nationalistic in 1861 as it had been in 1812.
No. People do not go to war for abstract theories of government. They fight for property and privilege and that was what Virginia fought for in the Civil War."
In an earlier post you claimed you wanted "to put the situation in greater context" & yet continue to refuse to look at the historical record.
I'll try again here although it will likely be as the metaphorical 'lost cause'.
W.E.B. DuBois wrote that piece in 1928.
At that point, the American Civil War was over 60 years past. The Slave States or former Confederate States had already passed the Black Codes in 1865 & 1866 so that was more than 60 years passed also. Jim Crow laws which originated from the Black Codes still in existed at the time of his writing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Neither side in the Civil War fought for a good cause.
In 1928 the former Confederate States of America were still fighting (& winning) the 'cold war' over white supremacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
My only defense of the south is this, I believe that the people themselves believed they were fighting for something far more noble than slavery.
You would agree that opposition to the Confederate flag has grown in recent years. They won't even show the Dukes of Hazzard on TV anymore. Why?
You don't have to be stupid to be manipulated by the media. White people are just as easily manipulated. If not more so.
The opposition from Blacks towards the Confederate flag has been there for a while. It has just become more vocal. To think that the media is manipulating Blacks to feel that way is dishonest.
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