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Old 03-19-2019, 10:20 PM
 
26,792 posts, read 22,567,030 times
Reputation: 10042

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I call BS. And this is why... No ID required to vote. But an ID is required to collect free food so that one's name can be crosschecked in the system? BS!!!

What do you mean "no ID required to vote?"


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/thoug...b_1897607.html


Of course ID ( and other documentation) is required to register for voting.
Same is with the registration for receiving the food in the food banks/pantry (in the case I described, where the food can be received once a month on a regular basis.)

You need to have the required documentation first time around. Once you are *registered,* you don't need to bring your ID - all the information ( including the size of the family) is already in the system.

Last edited by erasure; 03-19-2019 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:42 PM
 
26,792 posts, read 22,567,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Lots of problems related to reliance on churches and charities in general, but one big one is the problem of economic downturns when EVERYONE is struggling to make money let alone "give." The "double whammy" is that time when more people are in need due to economic downturn and fewer able to help because they are being negatively impacted at the same time. Still, people need to eat no matter what and usually they need to eat before the time it takes for the economy to turn back around.

This too is where and why the argument for government intervention comes into play, because not only can you manage a more secure reliable manner in which to address these problems during economic ups and downs, but by doing so -- if properly managed -- the severity of the downs can be mitigated some for the most vulnerable and for the economy as a whole. Rather than "let the bottom fall out" as it were...

Of course such programs can't run without the direct government intervention.
If people will rely on donations only, they might find stocked shelves in the local food pantry today, but a month later they might be empty. So this will promote constant search of food in different food banks, in order to assure that one has at least some canned goods, because nobody knows whether they will be in place in time of urgent need.

When I was describing situation with once a month allowance, the government was definitely involved along with local sources, to make sure that the supply in such food distribution centers was going steady.

That's why in many ways people were discouraged to go from one place to another in search of food, since every month they were guaranteed to receive help with groceries. So they always knew that if they were running short on money, there was a place they could turn to for basic necessities.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259
A nuclear war would close the gap dramatically.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:19 PM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,733,904 times
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Getting back to the more general question or maybe another related question about history and alternatives worth thinking about...

"So, my assumption is, until given a reason to think otherwise, the end of capitalism also has to be seen, first and foremost, as intolerable in the growing hearts of the society — never all of the society, but parts of it, enough parts of it that there is an accumulation of power sufficient to rebel, to refuse to accept the continuation of capitalism. So that’s how I expect to see the transition begin."

https://truthout.org/articles/richar...or-revolution/
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:08 PM
 
13,966 posts, read 5,632,409 times
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All these pages later, and there are still two things socialism cannot find a way to circumvent or eliminate - human nature and scarcity.

the reason capitalism as an economic system works is because human nature and scarcity are each gears that make that machine go. Where socialism needs to deny/eliminate the two to function properly, capitalism requires the two.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What do you mean "no ID required to vote?"
Many states allow one to register to vote by just checking a box on the registration form, no ID required. Furthermore, there is no state-issued photo ID required to vote in most states.

Quote:
Of course ID ( and other documentation) is required to register for voting.
No, it is not.
Quote:
Same is with the registration for receiving the food in the food banks/pantry (in the case I described, where the food can be received once a month on a regular basis.)

You need to have the required documentation first time around. Once you are *registered,* you don't need to bring your ID - all the information ( including the size of the family) is already in the system.
Also false in most cases. One needn't even give their name to get free food from a food pantry. Asking for ID is considered intrusive and a "violation of their dignity."
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,177,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
No.
Yes.

She includes Hawaii and Alaska to skew the data, while your government excludes Hawaii and Alaska as statistical outliers.

You cannot deny that.


It's irrefutable proof.


You see only what you want to see.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:47 PM
 
26,792 posts, read 22,567,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Many states allow one to register to vote by just checking a box on the registration form, no ID required. Furthermore, there is no state-issued photo ID required to vote in most states.

What "many states," what "box" and what "registration form"?
As you can see here, practically ALL states require the proof of identity during registration process. Once identity is established - yes, you can show up already without an ID in FEW states on election day, provided you are not showing up to vote for the FIRST time.
The only notable exception to these rules is Oregon as far as I can see.



Quote:
No, it is not.
Look above; it's obvious that ID ( and other documentation) is required for registration.



Quote:
Also false in most cases. One needn't even give their name to get free food from a food pantry. Asking for ID is considered intrusive and a "violation of their dignity."
It depends what "food pantry" we are talking about. If it operates exclusively on donations ( and that means today the food is there, tomorrow it's gone,) and no one is held accountable to keep those shelves stuffed - yes, chances are, no one is going to ask the ID from the recipients. And recipients most likely will move from one pantry to another, in search of different food items, since no one knows what they can find here or there and when.

When the government steps in however (as in case I've described,) and guarantees that once a month the recipient can count on stuffed shelves in the pantry, where he/she can find the allotted amount of proteins/starches/dairy/vegetables, then the government in its turn requires the accountability ( as in case with voting, establishing the identity of recipient first.) It restricts the amount of groceries according to family size, and limits locations where one can get groceries, making sure that everyone in need will have sufficient help.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What "many states," what "box" and what "registration form"?
There's a registration form one fills out to register to vote, or alternatively, it can be done online. All one has to do is provide a name, address, and say they're a US citizen. No ID required.
Quote:
It depends what "food pantry" we are talking about. If it operates exclusively on donations ( and that means today the food is there, tomorrow it's gone,) and no one is held accountable to keep those shelves stuffed - yes, chances are, no one is going to ask the ID from the recipients. And recipients most likely will move from one pantry to another, in search of different food items, since no one knows what they can find here or there and when.
There's no way I believe that a state-issued ID is required to get food at a food pantry but none is required to vote.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:25 AM
 
8,154 posts, read 3,682,802 times
Reputation: 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Yes.

She includes Hawaii and Alaska to skew the data, while your government excludes Hawaii and Alaska as statistical outliers.

You cannot deny that.


It's irrefutable proof.



You see only what you want to see.



Lol, what?


You can look up the data for each state and each county separately, so I have no idea what in the world you are talking about.



As I said, if anything, HC related costs listed are too low. As you might know, the average HC spending per capita in this country is 10k (probably more at this point) a year.

Same with childcare - too low, but that category mentions using "the absolutely lowest cost option available".
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